1970 Wsc Release


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#1 JETninja

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:35 AM

http://forum.racesim...ad.php?t=335876  From some old Bud's Normheart and crew. (I helped them with data years ago for Riverside International Raceway, and Porsche 917 info back in the F1C days..)



CSGT is proud to present 1970 The World Sportscar Championship

This is composed of three mods

The World Sportscar Championship 1970 mod which consists of a selection of cars representative of the typical lineup at most of the WSC1970 races

Le Mans 1970 mod which consists of 48 of the 51 starters at the 1970 Le Mans race

Classic Sportscar and Grand Touring 1970 mod which is a combination of both of the above mods plus many more cars which have varying paint jobs. This combination of cars never ran together historically but provides you the chance to see what would have happened if the long tails had run with the hillclimbers at any track or any other combinations you can come up with.

We are Algis, Bristow, Gunnar333, Marco F., NEChris, NormHart, and taufikp,
with AlexSolerRoig, andreh, Christopher Snow, Moritz, PabloCorsico,
RallyMaster, RobinM, Sergioloro,
and the help of many many others. Thanks guys.

Sports 5000 – 49 total including all 19 Le Mans starters; 4 Makes; 7 Models.
Ferrari 512S Coda Corta Targa – 4 including 1 Le Mans entry (2 physics packages)
Ferrari 512S Coda Corta Coupe – 7 including 2 Le Mans entries
Ferrari 512S Coda Lunga – 8 all Le Mans entries (2 physics packages)
Ford GT40 MkI – 4
Lola T70 Mk3B – 6 including 1 Le Mans entry and 1 Le Mans DNQ
Porsche 917K – 18 including 5 Le Mans entries (3 physics packages)
Porsche 917L – 2 all Le Mans entries (2 physics packages)

Prototype 3000 – 37 total including 10 Le Mans starters; 5 Makes; 9 Models
Alfa Romeo Tipo 33.3 Coda Lunga – 4 all Le Mans entries
Ferrari 312P - 5 including 1 Le Mans entry
Healey XR37 – 1 Le Mans entry
Matra MS650 – 5 including 1 Le Mans entry (2 physics packages)
Matra MS650 Longue Queue– 1 Le Mans entry
Porsche 908-02 – 4
Porsche 908-02 Flunder – 8 including 1 Le Mans entry
Porsche 908-02 LH - 1 Le Mans entry
Porsche 908-03 – 8

Sports 2000 – 13 total including 5 Le Mans starters; 2 Makes; 3 Models
Chevron B16 – 7 including 3 Le Mans entries (3 physics packages)
Porsche 906 – 2
Porsche 910 – 4 including 2 Le Mans entries

Grand Touring 5000 – 7 total including both Le Mans starters; 3 Makes; 4 Models
Chevrolet Corvette L88 – 4 including 2 Le Mans entries
Ferrari 365 GTB/4 – 1
Ford Mustang 1966 Group2 – 1
Ford Mustang 1967 Group2 – 1

Grand Touring 2000 – 19 including all 12 Le Mans starters; 1 Make; 6 Models
Porsche 911 – 14 including 11 Le Mans entries (5 physics packages)
Porsche 914 – 5 including 1 Le Mans entry

Altogether 125 cars

Car modeling by Gunnar333, Marco F., and NEChris. See the individual car
folders for credits for each car.

Our cars are RealFeel compatible (see the RealFeel readme for more
information). These cars are designed to run with no assists like the
originals. Using assists may produce unexpected results and interfere
with the relative performance of the cars, depending on your settings.
We strongly recommend that you turn off the vocals, hud, and all assists
if you want to feel what these cars were really like and immerse
yourself in the period. A clutch and H box shifter are recommended as
well although autoshift will work if you want it.

The mod is a historical re-creation not modern Historicals cars, as such
our cars are not easy to drive at the limits nor are they balanced
within the classes. The cars reflect the technology of 1970, tyres have
much less grip, brakes are not as effective as modern brakes, and
downforce is negligible.

Physics by Bristow. See the Physics Readme for more details on these cars.

Music, Movies, encryption, and GUI by Gunnar333

Beta testing by Team Trellet and DKutz (thanks guys!)

We have not found any way of producing results by class other than the
method used here. It is a little clunky for car selection but the
results display does show the place in class.

Conversion or modification of the World 1970 Sportscar Championship Mod for rFactor
is not allowed, whatever the destination platform.
All files contained in this package are copyright protected by the CSGT
Group.
The material provided in our mods/patches is not connected to Image
Space Incorporated. No support can be obtained from ISI if you have applied
our mods/patches.
Our mods/patches may not be profited commercially by a third party
unless permission is granted by the CSGT Group.
We accept no responsibilities for losses or damage resulting from the
use of our mods/patches.

Use of this mod implies agreement with this license. If you don't want
to comply with the license don't download our mod.

Extract the files to the root of your rFactor install.

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WSC70 Mod

RealFeel ReadMe for V1.0

The chassis files for these cars are built to model the chassis of the originals. The combination of chassis layout, steering alignment and choice of tyre play a big part in determing how the car feels and what sort of feedback you get.

The cars in WSC70 cover a wide range of layouts and the weights range from 615 kg with the engine at the back to nearly 1400kg with a 7 litre V8 in the nose. This produces a wide range and quality of forces back through a force-feedback wheel. The cars work quite well with RealFeel and the personality of the car comes back to the driver as feedback.

Steering arm location determines the sign of MaxForceAtSteeringRack. The GT classes have steering ars behind the front axle, so MaxForceAtSteeringRack is positive, whereas the other classes, being rear-engined sports cars, have the steering arms in front of the axle and MaxForceAtSteeringRack is negative.

Unfortunately there are limitations in the hardware available for driving sims. If force-feedback wheels could emulate the actual forces involved in driving a racing car then there would be a few smashed desks and bruised wrists in driving-sim land. But they do not, so we must adjust the maximum force as it is read by RealFeel if we want to reduce clipping and improve the fidelity of the feedback. However, those settings do dumb down the differences in feel between cars. If you want to experience the differences, set MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2200.000000 for all the classes.

RealFeel is set by class of car in WSC70 and the settings for each class are -

[Sports 2000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2200.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

[Grand Touring 2000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=2800.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

[Grand Touring 5000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=5500.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

[Prototype 3000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2000.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

[Sports 5000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2500.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=0

These settings replace all the settings used by the cars prviously released in HPM and should be used as starting points for wheels such as the G25 and DFP but please feel free to change them as you see fit. If you have a Black Momo or similar 270° wheel, you might try setting SmoothingLevel at 2.

I hope you enjoy these cars as much as I do.


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Physics ReadMe for WSC70

WSC70 is a set of racing cars from the late 60s which raced in the World Sportscar Championship of 1970. We have most of the important cars and a few others as well.

We have done what we could, using the information we had at hand and working around some limitations in controller hardware and rFactor itself, to model these cars in a realistic and individual fashion while trying to ensure they are fun to drive for the driving sim enthusiast. The cars are not pedantically accurate replicas of the real thing as this is not practical, but we used real values for the car's attributes where we could. Engine power curves are taken from published curves where we could get them, so in some cases you will experience torque curves with humps and valleys over the rev range. Likewise, gear ratios are from the makers' data where available and we used drawings, models and photos as input for the suspension layouts.

The cars are configured for LeMans by default, so they are geared for top speed. Alternative FD ratios are available for twisty tracks. Tyres are cold to start with, as there were no tyre-warmers in 1970. They should be up to temperature in a few laps. Short twisty circuits may require the tyres to be changed from Softs to Hards.

Assists are enabled so that inexperienced drivers might find the cars a little easier to drive to start with. However to get the whole experience of the period, the cars should be driven with all assists off and manual shifting.

Our intention from the start was to let the personality of each car show through. The chassis, body and drivetrain all have a part to play in this approach to reality. It means that the cars are different in speed, grip and feel from make to make and from model to model and we have not tried to tune this out. So the Real fast cars remain faster and the slower ones never catch up unless the faster car breaks down - which they do from time to time. It's more fun this way and provides a variety of driving experiences. The result is interesting competition between cars of different classes.

In Real Life, not all these cars were reliable enough to last the 24 hours of LeMans. Our cars mirror the actual experience, so if you want to race a real 24 hour race, make sure you choose a car which has a good chance of lasting the distance.

Some of the cars of this era were a challenge to the chassis and tyre technology of the day. The cars at the top level deliver power and speed not seen before and their performance challenged the ability of the drivers to deliver their best. The fastest of these cars are not easy to drive, but you had to be at the top of your game to drive them in Real Life. If you find the faster cars to be a challenge, try some of the smaller-capacity class cars to get your hand in.

1970 was the second-last year of the 5-litre Sports Cars class in the WSC, a class for which 25 examples had to be built. Famously, both Porsche and Ferrari made 25 and more copies of their new cars, the 917 and 512S. The other members of that class were the Lola T70 Mk3B and the Ford GT40 Mk1, both designs being from earlier years and somewhat out of the front rank on power and/or weight.

Prototypes were limited to three litres in the WSC, and we have cars from Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Healey, Matra and a variety of Porsches. These cars were fast but brittle, and the 3-litre cars were not up with the big sports cars in 1970. They became competitive in 1971 and they came into their own in 1972.

Contenders for class wins include the Porsche 906 "Carrera 6" and the 910 prototype which was derived from it, plus the Chevron B16. The GT 2000 class has the Porsche 911 in 2 litre and 2.2 litre form and the 914/6-GT. The GT 5000 class has Corvette L-88s, a Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Competizione and two Group 2 Mustang notch-backs.

By 1970 the suspension design for prototypes and sports/racing cars had settled into the layout shown by Colin Chapman in the Lotus 18 and refined in the 24 and 25. Double wishbones of unequal length at the front, with a combination of transverse links and trailing arms at the rear which were effectively another set of double wishbones. Coil-over dampers - double-acting single speed - were found outboard front and rear, along with disk brakes. So there were a lot of similarities between cars. Each suspension file has been built to reflect the actual car as we understood them. The road-based cars retain their original suspension and brakes layout so there is quite a lot of variety.


These notes are about the individual cars and their physics.

Porsche sports-racing cars -

It is apparent from the amount of information available that Porsche's approach to engineering their racing cars was orderly and quite well documented. They took few big leaps into the unknown and each new car was derived from the successful cars of the recent past. When they built 25 of the 4.5L 917s and announced they were going after line-honours at LeMans, the car was a beefed up version of their earlier long-tail 907 and 908 design. They already knew that the streamlined long tail produced lift, but they missed out on how much lift would result at the extreme high speed of the new car. In 1969 form, the 917LH was lethal. The actual story of how the car was worked into a practical winner is quite interesting. The 917 was always a challenge to drive, and proved slower than the more nimble 908-03 over twisty circuits.

Porsche sports racing cars of the later 60s all have their genesis in the 904 GTS. This car was conceived as a car to be sold to customers and it had a steel chassis and fibreglass bodywork so it could be easily repaired. The 904 is not in our car-set as it was too early, but it set the basic dimensions for the future and the wheelbase of 2.3 metres was used by Porsches sports-racing cars well into the '70s. We do have the 906 and the suspension of the 904 was reused for that car, the very successful customer-car of 1966. The 910 was derived as a prototype from the 906, with smaller wheels, wider tyres, a bit less weight and a bit less drag. Both cars are relatively conventional prototype/sports-racing cars of their era with unequal length double wishbones front and rear.

Porsche believed in allowing racing cars cars to stick to the road by enabling reasonable wheel movement. They did this by making suspensions which were somewhat softer than some of their competition - a leaf out of Lotus' book. So these cars are not rock-hard to ride in and they respond to subtle steering and throttle input. We have 906/6 and 910/6 cars, plus the 908-02 in standard and Flunder bodywork, the 908-02 Flunder Langheck which came 3rd at LeMans and some of the lightweight 908-033 spyders in this mod. The 908-03 was built to run the daytime only events on twisty tracks for which the 917 was less suitable, like the Targa Florio and Nurburgring. To cut weight it had no front lighting equipment! Even so, it was limited to the best of the flat-6 engines built for the 908s and about 360hp. Porsche was limited at that time to two valves per cylinder by their agreement with VW about support for air cooling. There was not enough room in the cylinder heads for four-valves per cylinder and air-cooling, and eventually someone gave in, but not in 1970!

The 917 was a challenge. It encompassed some interesting decisions in body design which were eventually addressed to some extent by the 917K. The wheelbase was a bit short and the power tended to overrun the chassis. There was also some adventurous suspension geometry in the earlier cars and stability was questionable for several versions just before our period. Even at it's best, it was very powerful, heavy to drive and had limited handling on twisty circuits. Have fun!

Ferrari sports-racing cars -

There are a few Ferraris, as there should be for endurance racing in the 60s and early 70s.

The 5-litre 512S is the main event for the year. Competitive with and arguably slightly faster that the Porsche 917, the 512S had veriable results in Real Life due to poor preparation and sloppy team management. RF cannot respond to much of that so the 512 will be faster at times which seems surprising. C'θ la vita!

The 512 comes in Short and Long Tail version in a variety of body shapes, and also Berlinetta and Spyder. Performance varies as they all have different aero characteristics!

The appearance of the 312P in 1969 presaged a new line in Ferrari history, but in this case it was underveloped and suffered from poor press about it's abilities and from lack of focus on actual performance. The lovely car of 1969 and 1970 disappeared in later years, after a period of promises unfulfilled.

Lola T70 -

The Sports 5000 class is rounded out with the Lola T70 Mk3B. This was the re-engineered version of the T70 coupe, with 5-litre 465hp Chevy V8. Never terribly reliable, the T70 did not repeat the win it enjoyed at Daytona in 1969 and was now towards the end of it's racing life. As much a product of the British Cottage Racing Industry as anything else, it suffered from lack of big-team involvement and the poor endurance capability of the Chevy small-block V8.

Ford GT40

Conceived in 1964, the GT40 Mk1 was largely obsolete by 1970. Entertaining in the hands of privateers, it was a journeyman endurance racing car from a few years ago. Other car's weights had gone down and power had gone up since then, so the GT40 was at the back of the 5 litre Sports pack. Easy to drive for long periods though!


Alfa Romeo -

We have the 3-litre V8 version of the T33/3 spyder, in long-tail form. It has a typically peaky engine and is reasonably light, but not terribly reliable in 1970. The six-speed gearbox is a standout in this class.

Matra -

Matra were "quite French" during the period of our cars. Bernard Boyer architected a series of automotive designs which pushed the frontier of auto-racing design - not always in the right direction, but he was imaginative. Some of the modifications seemed to be chosen so that they were different from what other makers had done. The MS650 "Pedalo" is just one example.

We have the MS650 with MS12 V12 3-litre engine and its fabulous exhaust note. The MS12 was a peaky engine with a big hole part-way up the torque curve. The upper three gear ratios are somewhat bunched together to avoid falling into it.

The MS650 comes in Standard, Front Airfoil and "LQ" (Pedalo) form - each with their own characteristics.

Healey -

The Healey XR37 was the Last Hurrah of a famous British designer at the end of his powers. The XR37, as raced, was a derivative of a rear-engined coupe with a Climax engine. The car was adapted to accomodate a Repco-Brabham 3 litre V8 in detuned form and the roof taken off. It reached the 23rd hour at LeMans, before expiring. It never raced again and was subsequently sold off after the race damage was repaired. The car is currently in Australia, largely intact.

Chevron -

The Chevron B16 was a more modern car than the Porsche 906 and 910 in the 2-litre class. Lighter and with more power, the B16-Cosworth was faster but less reliable. The BMW - engined version was an attempt at more reliability, while the version with the Wankel rotary from the Mazda R-100 was an interesting experiment.

Porsche 911 and 914/6

All these cars have versions of the 6-cylinder boxer engine originally released in the first 911. The 2 litre 911 has 200 hp and shares this engine with the 914 where it develops 210 hp, plus there are 210 hp and 230 hp versions of the 2.2 litre engine in 911s. Porsche engine files are based on published data, mostly from Paul Frere's book "The Racing Porsches".

The A- and B-Series 911 has McPherson strut front suspension and semi-trailing arms at the rear and the 914 has a variant of the same layout. The rF version of the chassis for these cars has an emulation of the strut suspension and a rearrangement of rF-style double-wishbones at the rear to function as the semi-trailing arms. The result is interesting as the overhanging mass of the engine in the 911 translates into a car which has more oversteer than the mid-engined 914, and has slightly slower on-track responses due to the relatively higher inertias. As you would expect, the characteristic strong oversteer is manageable for a skilled driver but one must pay attention. The result is that the slightly lighter and more agile 914 will mix it with the more powerful mid-range 911s.

Corvette L-88

This is the C3 version of the L88, with 427 cid engine and 550 hp. One of the heavier cars with lots of torque, so it needs a gentle foot in corners. Classic Corvette suspension underneath.

Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Competitione -

Group 2 version of the classic GTB/4. Front/mid-engined, gearbox in a unit with the differential, independent suspension on all wheels, with big disks all round. Classic 60s GT car. A lovely car to drive. I hope you enjoy it like we do.

Shelby Mustang Group 2 -

With the GT-350 homologated as a 2-seat sports car, the notchback was put up in Group 2 as a four seater, otherwise it was similar underneath. An interesting car to go racing amongst the 911s, the rear drum brakes are a weak point.

Drivetrains -

We found a comprehensive set of actual ratios for the Porsches, as well as for the Hewland and ZF boxes in a number of cars and for the American transmissions so there are plenty of options avaliable. The default gearing for each car is set for LeMans where the ratios were published for that track, so they are quite long-legged in standard form. For tighter tracks, the final drive ratio may be increased in the garage, which will increase acceleration at lower speeds at the expense of top speed.

Aerodynamics -

In Real Life some of these cars developed lift and some developed downforce. The science of aerodynamics as applied to racing cars was in it's infancy and we can see a lot of guessing and copying what the best were doing. Porsche seemed to know most about what they were doing and had been runnung wind tunnel tests for some time in their pursuit of low drag. However the results suffered from lack of wind tunnels with moving road surfaces, so the correlation between wind-tunnels and track testing was patchy and contradictory. There are also issues with the way tyres in rF deal with changes in vertical load - for my tyres anyway. So there are some compromises as well.

The regulations, as expressed in Appendix J for 1969 from the FIA, stipulated that cars had to be able to be driven over a box 100mm high with driver and fuel on board. Hence all these cars cannot be lowered beyond 100mm. Altough some of the later Porsche 908s had small splitters, the relatively high clearance would have limited their effectiveness. Accordingly, the effect of pitch on downforce was limited. As well, these cars had no diffusers so there is no ground effect either.


In building the physics I had inspiration from many sources and from other mod builders, including but not limited to ISI staff, and the members of CSGT and of Trellet.mod. I built the files using spreadsheets based on the principles described in my threads on physics in RSC. I used TP's Suspension Editor to look at the suspensions and Kangaloosh's CarFactory to analyse suspensions and parts of the tyres. Then I used RealFeel to drive them and MoTec to iron out some of the on-track issues. Thanks to all these people.

If you want to modify these files or use these files on any other cars or platforms then you need my permission. If you are interested in joint collaboration then please make contact via RSC or RFC where I have the same moniker.

We had fun building and testing these cars and it taught me some interesting things about rF. I hope you enjoy driving them.

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Keep checking the link for the download links......And you might want to install it in another rFactor install.....

Cheers!
John Tami

The Alfa of Andrea de Cesaris - one of the most feared chicanes in the mid-80s.

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#2 GOGGLES PAESANO

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 11:43 AM

The vids look amazing, the sounds are addictive!!
Hubert Cheyroux

#3 Terry Fisher

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 12:49 PM

I've been waiting for this one also. :beerchug:

I really like the older cars.

Seems they are having trouble with DL links. I downloaded it from Filefront,but that was corrupted. :weeping:

Edited by Terry Fisher, 21 June 2009 - 12:53 PM.


#4 TJ Halsema

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 02:46 PM

The mod is bloody amazing, you really have to nurse the cars to get them to turn on those skinny tires. Just to note, someone posted a link in the discussions on rfactorcentral.com in that link the Corvette file is corrupted, but the other files work.
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“To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one’s ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone.”

– Bruce McLaren

#5 Mike Hirsch

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 07:19 PM

I was hoping some more familliar names and their cars would be in the mod. They may however be from a few years later. Here is a picture of the 908 that from what I remember I was told was the one driven by Niki Lauda. The 906 in the mod driven by Rainer Brazinka is not in the pictures but he is the Guy in the middle with the hat. My father is the one driving. I think the picture with guys standing around the car  is at St Jovite, and other one is at Mosport.

That 908 went back to the Porsche museum for something like  1 million  dollars. Unless my Dads holding out on me I dont think they sold it for that.  Would have been nice to see into the future though.  Back then a race car was just another race car.

Mike

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#6 Ryan Mayfield

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 05:11 AM

These cars go 220mph down the straight and 30mph through the turns..i love it! X_x

#7 Paul Harwood

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 05:21 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks for the link, JT. I DL'd and installed OK and so far no corrupt files.

The 1st two things I noticed were that the skins have very saturated colors and the mod has trouble making windows look like windows. It looks at times as if there is no window. Much of the cars'  looks remind of the old SCGT Mc Edie collection. I think with a few mild artistic tweaks they could look more realistic. Also the cube map does not reflect enough. This may be due to the over-saturation of the bright skin colors.

Second is the 'pendulum' aspect of the physics. Since I have only taken one 917 out for laps around our VOR Le Mans track version, I will only comment on that experience.

Pendulum effect? I don't buy it. Much of it is amplified by the stock setup 25 degree lock. Dialed down to 15 the P effect got a little less.

I will reserve my comment on the overall  mod interpretation of the P effect until I try the 914, as I owned one, a 2.0 L. I also drove a 350/350 70 Vette for a few months right after the 914.

Its the fact that this mod's P effect feels like the car pivots around one central point instead of feeling like there are 4 wheels. There is also much body roll-like motion which carries momentum between the steering input and the eventual chassis reaction.  To me this is a bit off. I can drive the mod but I seriously did everything to dial that pendulum motion right out.

For me, cars so low to the ground with so little play in the suspension and steering, would not pendulum around from steering input. From high horsepower and antique rubber? Sure. But feel like my dad's 85 Monte Carlo or my old 71 T Bird? No. Those cars get pendulum motion due to the huge amount of weight outside of the wheel base. These 917 and similar cars, for the most part have wheels at the corners of the body and so do not have any weight to cause such a pendulum effect.

If I were to pick a 3rd point, it would be the strange tire response. If I lock up the fronts and front wheel drift in understeer, I should feel something from the steering.

In comparisson, I will have to go back to the Historic Rally Cars rF mod in a Realfeel environment to see if that mod's pendulum effect is better modeled. (Lat time i drove the HRC mod was before RealFeel.)

I am wondering how other VOR drivers feel about these issues.

Overall I would not slam the mod. I would however like to see these issues improved a bit. Its still and most importantly great fun to get back into these historic cars. There is also obviously great amounts of time and effort that went into assembling such an ambitious mod.

Neat sounds.

Cheers.

PH

Edited by Paul Harwood, 22 June 2009 - 05:26 AM.

L'audace! Toujours l'audace!
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#8 Ryan Mayfield

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:08 AM

Paul--check to make sure the steering is working properly. When i tried the 917, sometimes the wheels would turn at a max of 5 degrees, and it would randomly go to full steering lock, and back to 5 in a blink of an eye. Just keep it in cockpit (if you weren't already) and see how the in-game wheel compares to the one you are using. The steering is broken for me, but only on that car.

#9 JETninja

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 07:30 AM

Paul....watch the movie Lemans....you will see a lot of "P" on the 917's and 512's among others. Leads to some crazy over steer as the bias ply tires are overwhelmed. Those cars were not low like cars since the 80's, and the had quite a bit of soft (compared to today) travel...and some with rather rudimentary suspension. Trying to model that I can imagine is not easy...

I've not installed the mod yet....maybe in a day or 2.
John Tami

The Alfa of Andrea de Cesaris - one of the most feared chicanes in the mid-80s.

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#10 Arturo Pereira

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 12:50 PM

According to Porsche΄s archives, the static ride height of the 917K at Le Mans were 3 3/4 at the front and 4 1/4 at the rear. They weren΄t low cars for sure ;)
AP

#11 Mike Hirsch

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 02:42 PM

Paul try the 917 long tail its default setup is something more drivable and fun than the short tail versions default setup. I couldnt get past 1st corner at Lemans with the short version.

Mike
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#12 Paul Harwood

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 05:11 PM

Hi Mike n all,

Yes. I agree the short tail 917 stock setup really is hard to drive. By tweaking, I got a decently driveable car.

I note that the AI seem to have massive understeer too. They go off many corners.

Pendulum motion is even mentioned at this year's Le Mans broadcast, refering to the Peugeots and Audis. Mc Edie's SCGT 312s; They were really pendulums. They are some of the most undriveable cars in sim racing.

I did a short test with the 914/6 and it was fun. It still had some sponginess to its feel that, to me is nothing like my 914. The gear ratios were odd. Taking Maison Blanche in 2nd and the revs are so low, its impossible to slide the rear out on exit.

A 914 is a 'hard' ride.  The only time it felt 'soft' was after a session of karting. Also, the mod's clutch needs to have auto-blip and auto lift turned off? Will try that next.

Loved the photos, Mike.

Fun driving the 914 though. I was really keeping up with the 911s.

Cheers.

PH
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#13 JETninja

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 06:49 PM

Paul, is your 914 running stock springs? Just curious....if so you could offer some feedback to them....

LOL at the 917 ride height, my DD M3 sits lower. (almost nothing about it is stock though) My X-Brace is about 3.3" off the ground....protects my oil pan when going over real obnoxious speed bumps... :D
John Tami

The Alfa of Andrea de Cesaris - one of the most feared chicanes in the mid-80s.

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#14 RaceFreek

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:09 PM

Wheres the tracks? I remember when both of the Holiday mods came out they had tracks with them and now they don't either.

We should have an online get together on a break week or in the off season just for some fun.

Chuck Curtis
Anger is one leter short of Danger

#15 RaceFreek

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 10:34 PM

Can someone explain the real feal controler ini and what to do with the settings in the first post. I have never used the RF plugin before and just want to make sure that I am doing it right.

Thanks
Chuck Curtis
Anger is one leter short of Danger

#16 Paul Harwood

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 02:00 AM

Hi Chuck,

I think some online fun with this mod would be great.

The RealFeel plugin is great if you set up your controller rates and FF settings as the realfeel read me  recommend. Which is:

Speed Sensi down to zero and negative 100% FF strenght/

I use Full effects level but some prefer setting this on low.

When Realfeel is running, a voice announces it as you get into the car. " RealFeel is active" or thereabouts.

Once you drive a car, the RealFeel ini will have created an entry for it.

There you can enter the values the mod suggests for the various class cars.

By alt tabbing back and forth from rF to the ini file you can tweak it from there.

I use a MOMO force wheel. For the ILMS mod, I run very low mixing values in RealFeel, like 10% as the ILMS mod is not specifically designed to run with RealFeel.

Hope this helps.

Gotta get the folks at SpeedFreaks TV into sims.


Cheers.

PH
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#17 RaceFreek

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Posted 23 June 2009 - 10:27 AM

Thanks Paul that helps a lot :)

Chuck
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#18 Paul Harwood

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Posted 27 June 2009 - 12:45 AM

Hi Chuck,

Also the centering spring in Win game controllers at 0 and unchecked.

That and the rF speed sensi at 0 are the 2 strange RealFeel settings.

Forgot about the centering spring in 1st post. Sorry bout this. It is mentioned in the RealFeel read me, I think.

Also I use the Leo plugin as well. I run both plugins. I run the Leo mostly for the wheels at rest resistance.  

Here's the RF ini entries

[LM-GT1]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=10.000000
SmoothingLevel=4
[LM-GT2]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=60.000000
SmoothingLevel=4
[LM-P2]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-600.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=60.000000
SmoothingLevel=0
[LM-P1]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=10.000000
SmoothingLevel=4

[Prototype 3000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=4
[Sports 5000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-2500.000000
SteeringDamper=11500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=2
[Grand Touring 2000]
MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
SteeringDamper=2500.000000
FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=100.000000
SmoothingLevel=4

The Sports 5000 is the only one I've set as per the WSC 70 mod read me.

Cheers.

PH

Edited by Paul Harwood, 27 June 2009 - 12:53 AM.

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#19 Paul Harwood

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 04:38 PM

Hi all,


I continue to spend lots of time with this mod. There are so many cars to try. I am on the Alfa T33 currently and it is lots of fun as it offers quite a range of setup adjustment. I can dial much of the pendulum effect out and still have a car that is plenty tough to drive.

I DL'd the tracks too. Great 1970 versions of Le Mans and Sebring

Gotta try some mixed class online stuff with this mod.

Cheers.

PH
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#20 Scott Hovanec

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:11 AM

This was in my WIP Watch at rFactor Central, missed this thread saying it had been released otherwise would have had it some time ago.  Looking forward to testing these beasts on the old 1970 tracks... Without having even tried yet have to agree with PH, would love to do some multi-class on-line fun-runs.
"Formula 1 for kids.  Sports cars for men" - Michele Alboreto




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