Can-Am 66 White Paper

CanAm66 mini-series Fun Run Season 22 GPL mods

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 MGL66

MGL66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,382 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

Unlike the “Gurney White Paper” which expressed profound dissatisfaction with the existing governing body and ultimately led to the formation of CART,  this White Paper proposes an idea to augment and enhance oAo. There is no rebellion here! I’ve had an idea kicking around in my head in recent weeks. I presented it to Bo and he authorized me to present it to the league to gauge interest level. So here it is ....

During the recently-concluded off season, Bo hosted several Fun Runs, participation in which earned coins for the current season. Would there be any interest in organizing these Fun Runs around a short, less-formal mini-series, complete with Drivers Championship (and possibly Team Championship)? Specifically here is what I have in mind: a six race series of coin-earning races based on the Can-Am 66 mod. Goals and structures of this “mini-series” would include the following:
  • It would free up Bo from doing any of the work. I would effectively serve as Commissioner of the series -- I would perform all administrative duties, keep track of races and coins earned (quantity per race to be determined) for oAo’s Season 22. I would maintain the web pages. Either Bo or I could launch the server on race day.
  • The series would employ some oAo systems already in place. In particular it would adopt the g-rating system, the stepped point system, and the general code of behavior.
  • It would not employ the oAo coin system. Participants would earn coins for Season 22 of oAo competition, just as we did this past off season, but there would be no expenditure of coins for the Can-Am 66 mini-series.
  • The coin system would be replaced with a simple set of rules to restrict chassis choice (and hopefully result in chassis diversity).
  • The races would be intended primarily as Fun Runs and coin earning opportunities, Any team or individual championships should be regarded as being of secondary importance. With that in mind, we would not be employing the whole protest and review system.
  • The series would introduce the Can-Am 66 mod to people who otherwise would not have given it a good, long look.
  • We could perhaps solicit driver participation from non-oAo people. This might raise the level of interest in oAo's regular '67 series. But priority for grid spots would go to oAo regulars.
  • The actual 1966 Can-Am series consisted of only 6 races. Six races might be a good length to fit into an off season. It shouldn't be too long for people to lose interest, nor is it so long that it will be considered a huge amount of work.
Mostly for my own fun, I've already created prototype web pages that outline series-specific rules and structures based around Season 21’s teams and ratings. You will quickly recognize that they were produced from oAo's DNA! As you look at these pages, please keep these caveats in mind:
  • The pages are based on full league participation, which I assume would never happen. In reality, I would expect maximum participation to consist of about enough people to fill one grid per venue, not two. So any depiction of a D1 and a D2 division is at this stage theoretical, nothing more.
  • The Schedule page uses only placeholder dates. Again, it is only theoretical.
  • There are other specifics in these pages (like for example the car choice rules) that are only in the proposal stage.
  • The Team pages are theoretical as well. Depending on level of interest, teams might need to be re-formed, or dispensed of entirely with everyone competing as a privateer.
Whether this proposed mini-series happens at all and what form it takes will depend entirely on the level of interest shown by you guys between now and the end of Season 21. So I pose to the league the following questions:
  • Are you interested in participating in such a series?

  • If so, would you prefer to run the series entirely during next off season? During the mid-season break? Split between the two?
Obviously there is no hurry to answer. It isn’t realistic to demand a commitment right now for something that (if it happens at all) won’t likely begin until Autumn. But please give it some thought. If you have any ideas, please share them. This is very much a work in progress.

Thanks,
Michael


Attached File  CanAm66_background7.jpg   300.37K   14 downloads
You have to admit, that looks pretty sexy.

#2 Aljones

Aljones

    Member

  • Members
  • 90 posts

Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:33 PM

Count me in !  I would split races between summer brake and off season
" Racing is Life, the rest is just .... waiting "

#3 Robert Fleurke

Robert Fleurke

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Groningen
  • Interests:Life

Posted 12 March 2018 - 01:54 PM

Very nice initiative Michael. I have gathered you like the 66 Can Am mod a lot. It's a great mod, but my focus lies mostly with 65s and 67s. Also I am used to take a 2-3 week simracing break in the summer as well as in the winter.

1. However I'm interested to participate, but not sure making all races.

2. I'd prefer it in the winter period since that break is also longer I think.

Best of luck, it's a lot of work to put into place.

Edited by Robert Fleurke, 12 March 2018 - 01:55 PM.


#4 Michkov

Michkov

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Graz

Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:36 PM

Love the idea, the offseason mod races are one of my favourite events to be honest so count me in.
I just wanna race

#5 BurtAugust

BurtAugust

    Senior Member

  • ADC
  • 2,151 posts

Posted 12 March 2018 - 05:11 PM

I do have a concern with awarding coins to be used in the regular oAo season.  Participating in oAo is a significant commitment.  Having the Can Am series award coins gives those drivers who can make the commitment to participate an advantage during the regular season and puts those who can't compete at a disadvantage.

That being said  I would be interested in racing in the series.

If there is to be a championship I would suggest a change to the point system; as it stands now if you are D5 or D1 you get the same points for 10-12th place.  This does not make for good racing since if you are in 12th there is nothing to gain by passing the 11th or 10th place cars.  I prefer a Nascar style system  where every position down to 18th earns points so there is always something to be gained when you pass somebody.  I would gladly volunteer to design such a system.

#6 MGL66

MGL66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,382 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 12 March 2018 - 05:38 PM

View PostBurtAugust, on 12 March 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

I do have a concern with awarding coins to be used in the regular oAo season.  Participating in oAo is a significant commitment.  Having the Can Am series award coins gives those drivers who can make the commitment to participate an advantage during the regular season and puts those who can't compete at a disadvantage.

It would be no different than what we did this past off season, in which drivers earned coins for participating in the F2 race at Birmingham, the Dan Gurney Memorial race, and so forth. Bo and I are currently leaning toward a flat rate in which drivers earn 1 coin for appearing and 1 or 2 coins for finishing. So anyone who finishes all 6 races will earn between 12 and 18 coins, depending. It shouldn't affect the competitive balance very much, and it would give an opportunity for those with few coins to make themselves a little more attractive come draft day. In fact (although Bo and I haven't discussed this particular issue), I would recommend giving first priority of grid spot to those with fewest carry-over coins. Of course, that would only come into play IF we have participation in any race >19 people -- and here we're getting ahead of ourselves. At this point, I am only seeking a preliminary idea of league interest

View PostBurtAugust, on 12 March 2018 - 05:11 PM, said:

If there is to be a championship I would suggest a change to the point system; as it stands now if you are D5 or D1 you get the same points for 10-12th place.  This does not make for good racing since if you are in 12th there is nothing to gain by passing the 11th or 10th place cars.  I prefer a Nascar style system  where every position down to 18th earns points so there is always something to be gained when you pass somebody.  I would gladly volunteer to design such a system.

I would have no problem with that at all. In fact, I would be eager to see what points system you would design. As mentioned above, however, until we get a firm idea of league interest, we won't quite know what we're designing for. The current oAo system utilizes 4 stepped levels based on two Divisions. If we get enough interest to run two races per venue (HIGHLY unlikely, I would think), then we can maintain the 4 stepped levels with whatever point value we agree on. By contrast, if we have only enough racers to fill one grid per venue (MUCH more likely), in which we have g1s competing directly with g8s, then I would recommend either combining adjacent g ratings on the table (i.e. combining g8 and g7 into one column, likewise g6/g5, g4/g3, and g2/g1) ... OR not combining g ratings, but turning the table into 8 stepped levels instead of only 4.

This can all be open to discussion. But first we need to gague interest level. Everything depends on that. But thank you, Burt, that's exactly the kind of input I'd like to have.

Michael

#7 MGL66

MGL66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,382 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 12 March 2018 - 06:01 PM

View PostRobert Fleurke, on 12 March 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

I have gathered you like the 66 Can Am mod a lot.

Actually I do, Robert. Over break I drove CanAm71 and F2, neither for the first time, but more extensively than ever before, while I drove CanAm66 for the very first time. The CanAm66s made the biggest impression on me.
  • I like the way they respond to throttle. There's enough power to make the car challenging without being super twitchy. These cars are really fun to drive.
  • Whoever created the default setups did, I think, a really good job.
  • The variety of cars is deceptively diverse. True, there are 4 Lola T70s and 3 or 4 McLarens (depending on how you interpret it), but those 2-3 chassis have 7 different engines, so they have different driving characteristics. Contrast that with the F2 mod, which uses 11 or 12 chassis with only 4 engines. Both (in fact all) GPL mods have their charms, but I found myself more attracted to what CanAm66 has to offer.
  • The cars are just pretty. I prefer that curvy 60s look to the boxier and more angular CanAm71 look. Just a personal preference.
  • Also the CanAm66 mod is one of the newer GPL mods. As time goes on and the GPL community presumably gets smaller, I don't know how many people are discovering these new gems. I rather like the idea of doing something to promote awareness of and appreciation for the other mods.
If we decide to do this and it is successful, then I could see applying this same mini-series treatment to other mods in the future. But that is looking too far into the future. Let's first see whether we want to make this idea work, then we can look beyond.

Michael

#8 Donnie Yourth

Donnie Yourth

    Senior Member

  • ADC Admins
  • 5,058 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:21 PM

Oh, I'm up for this.  :)

Keep us informed, pls. Michael.

#9 bobho-in

bobho-in

    Old Fart

  • Members
  • 999 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Wayne IN.
  • Interests:Music, Cars, Yoga

Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:53 AM

Yes, Count me as in.   I would like to see this between seasons, and not during the upcoming summer break.
Many people dream of success. To me success can only be achieved through repeated failure and introspection.
Soichiro Honda

#10 snafu

snafu

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 980 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hall End England
  • Interests:GPL
    F2B (Control Line aerobatic model aircraft).
    Motorcycles
    Crown Green bowling

Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:15 AM

I would be interested in this as well. Preferably as a series between seasons, rather than during the summer break. (I will need the summer break to learn Brno49).  :wallbash:

This being the case. (Between seasons rather then during the summer break) I think the teams option is largely redundant.

As the teams would have been disbanded by then coins earned would go to the driver and only serve to increase their appeal to prospective team leaders for the following season.

But other than that I think it's a great idea I don't have any strong opinion regarding keeping the 2 divisions apart and a single drid which is full to me is more prefereably than 2 grids with only 8 or 9 drivers.

TTFN
John.
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

Fast, Cheap, Reliable. Choose any 2.

Beat it to fit, paint it to match..

1 in 4 people in the world are mentally unbalanced.
Look closely at 3 of your closest friends. If they seem OK it's probably you.

#11 GrandPrixYannick

GrandPrixYannick

    The Flying Dutchman

  • Members
  • 232 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands
  • Interests:GPL, I think?? :)

Posted 14 March 2018 - 07:21 AM

I like it. Preferably off-season, I'm usually on holiday in summer so I miss quite a few races then.
"Grand Prix Legends is a drug. I am addicted to it."
- Based on a quote of Harry Schell

#12 Michkov

Michkov

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Graz

Posted 14 March 2018 - 09:59 AM

One concern I have is that the CanAm season will use all the off season slots. Because I quite enjoy racing different mods in them.
I just wanna race

#13 efarina

efarina

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,015 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:mexico
  • Interests:cars, beer, and womans. obviusly money.

Posted 14 March 2018 - 01:04 PM

I'm interested in the proposal, and whatever you do, count on me.
Posted Image[img

#14 MGL66

MGL66

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,382 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 15 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

View PostMichkov, on 14 March 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

One concern I have is that the CanAm season will use all the off season slots. Because I quite enjoy racing different mods in them.
Yes, that is true. There are drivers who like the idea of switching between mods from race to race.

The flip side of that coin is that there are also drivers (admittedly I am one of them) who want time to really practice with a given mod and get to know it well. For a driver who has little if any experience with mods, one week to prepare for an F2 race followed by one week to prepare for a CanAm71 race, followed by one week to prepare for a GT race ... is not enough time to really explore and appreciate the mod. A six-race series concentrating on only one mod allows time for real exploration.

If this mini-series happens and is well received, then it stands to reason that future mini-series would naturally concentrate on other mods.

Michi, should I record your vote as "yes, I will participate in a CanAm66 mini-series but would prefer that a mix of mods be used instead"?

Michael

#15 Michkov

Michkov

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Graz

Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:36 PM

By all means sign me up, just leave a weekend or two for an exhibition race using something completely different.
I just wanna race

#16 Bo Bruce

Bo Bruce

    Senior Member

  • oAo_admin
  • 4,639 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 March 2018 - 06:02 PM

only 1 'exception' for me is that i more than likely won't make all 6 races if they occur mid-season.
as to 'other' mods.. i DO want to run the SC mod RACE at Targa :)
the one where we'll leave at 1min intervals... but that's yet to be determined and i will coord that with Michael.
should the CanAm66 be voted to be run over mid season, i would hold off running Targa till over winter off season.
hApPy TrAiLs

oAo League Admin:
http://oao-gpl.speedgeezers.net/start.html

#17 Michkov

Michkov

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,604 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Graz

Posted 15 March 2018 - 08:09 PM

Technically CanAms are classified as group 7 type sportscars ;D
I just wanna race

#18 Bob Simpson

Bob Simpson

    The Answer Man

  • VOR Admins
  • 4,586 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ottawa

Posted 23 March 2018 - 10:01 AM

I am definitely interested
Bob Simpson
VOR GPL Race Series Manager

#19 Ed_Cullen

Ed_Cullen

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 155 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Perth Western Australia

Posted 31 March 2018 - 07:37 AM

Count me in as well guys, Any time suits.

Hi Michael

Had my first try! they are a heap of fun,did take long to get a feel.
The new  Legends of GPL Mod


https://youtu.be/qNrCDzrXbyk

Edited by Ed_Cullen, 31 March 2018 - 01:55 PM.


#20 D_J

D_J

    Member

  • Members
  • 90 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 01 May 2018 - 05:58 AM

Barely tried the CA66 but they seem like a lot of fun to drive so count me in. The only thing for my part is that Im over commited at this point in time. Already driving a bunch of series in 67 mod but if time permits it Im there.




Sim Racing Links