Preseason Testing


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#1 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 08:30 PM

Testing Week 11 Details  (changes from last test are in blue)

Tracks - download and extract to your rFactor folder.  There are 4 tracks we're testing the mod with: Road America, Sebring, LeMans, and MidOhio.  (If you downloaded these last week, no need to redownload)

All GT Cars - Download the GT cars package and extract to your rFactor folder.  This is a full package including the GTC cars again (this syncs everyone up with the current mod build).  I recommend a new rFactor installation, or you can delete you VOR install, or you can install on top of the old VOR (it should work, but don't complain if it doesn't :) )  (edit: make sure you also add the Saleen sounds which we're incorrectly using for the Aston Martin)

Note - add the 12/15/09 patch - details about changes in download thread

Please add the 12/17/09 Viper patch (in download thread)

Please add teh 12/20/2009 GT patch (for brakes) (in download thread)

or you can download the full package - updated 12/20/09

This pack includes:
GTC - 997 Porsche
GT - Aston Martin, BMW, Ferrari, Corvette, Viper, Porsche, and Ford

Notes:
- the Aston and the BMW models are being reworked to represent their new bodies.  The physics may change some when the models are done, but this should be relatively close
- we know a couple cars are too dominate.  I'm not telling which ones, I want to see if you guys find the same results.  However, we don't want everyone to only drive the dominate cars... that doesn't help us either.
- As you test each of the cars, please post your setups, notes, and details (top speed, fuel, tire wear, brake wear).  The more data we have, the easier it is for us to spot issues.  Just testing the cars without providing this feedback is not helpful...
- Motec data is very helpful. please rar and post your data (once you've settled in on a good setup, etc).
- We need endurance package wear data (validate the cars will last the full duration of an endurance race).  Server is set to accelerate mechanical wear rates by 10x (however, not fuel or tires).  Therefore every 6 minutes will be approximately an hour.  Our 75 min race will simulate approximately a 12 hour endurance race. (please note - I'm not positive if the server wear rate works in practice mode or just race mode.  Please let me know...)
- Ferrari has been updated to improve it's unpredictability.  Please test asap so we know if we're on the right track and should implement to the other challenging cars.

12/21/09 Race
- 75 minute race (standing start, formation lap) at Road America
- Server set to normal tire and fuel wear
- Mechanical wear set to 10x.  Use a 12 hour endurance package.
- Qual at 9:15pm EST, 15 minutes
- Race start at approximately 9:35 EST
- I am going to try to put together Daytona for this test Monday since it's a harder test on the brakes.  Watch for a track update soon.

Regarding the season... (no changes)
- obviously we are waiting for v3 of the mod
- we are working to have it ready by end of 2009.
- Current plans are for the season signup to commence in mid-late December
- We will begin license validation races and preseason races (help determine car selection, get used to racing together in large fields, etc) in early January
- Season will kick off the beginning of February.  This gives us a little breathing room in case the mod release is a bit late.
- This means it will run through the summer.  We wanted to try to adjust our schedule to take the summer off, but it's not going to work out due to us changing to v3 of the mod.
- The feedback about the mod has been very positive by our testers.  There is still work to be done, but we're getting there...

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#2 Paul Danrich

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

Has the Vette been fixed at all?  After some testing at Sebring I found it has too much engine braking on downshifting and spins really easy, even with a bunch of front brake bias.  No chance in lowering the wing at all.  Very unpredictable even with it pushing like a dump truck in the fast corners.  It seems to have less overall traction/downforce than the ford.  This car needs serious help if anyone will want to drive it.  The Ford is way better but found we still need full wing, and the BMW probably the most stable/fastest even with lower wing settings.

#3 BoniPiket

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:18 AM

I agree with Paul 100% about the cars but, from what I´ve understood from Bruce´s post, the updated Ferrari is a resume of what the other cars will be if this update works fine...so if the Ferrari drives better with this fix, changes will be made to the other "I-want-to-spin-no-matter-how-many-wings-I-have" cars, so they´ll be more predictable and stable...
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#4 GAb

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 02:00 PM

I played around with the F430 for a little bit last night and I can say it feels better, but the snap oversteer is still there. It's much easier to turn into corner with confidence now though. I'll post my setup once I get home.
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#5 john jogan

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 03:18 PM

oh man!  whatever pixie dust you sprinkled on the 430, do it to the vette, too!  very predictable under braking.  with the 12h package, popped off a 2:09 at road america with stock brakes and stock gears and max aero.  plenty of time to shave off that with a little setup work.  i did notice the temps get a little toasty with the stock radiator settting of 2.  bumping this to 3 (max) worked perfectly.  with the 12h package, you're still unable to select the different brake disc sizes.  i'm gonna assume this is to purposely force drivers to use the correct package in the endurance races.  brake wear was barely noticeable after 10 laps, but as you stated above, not sure if 10x mech wear works in practice or just in race mode.  

btw, the new patch is NOT self extracting!  you gotta put the config files in each of the respective car folders.  plus the extra .hdv file for the 430.  just a heads up...
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#6 Paul Danrich

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:07 PM

Self extracting files would be sooo much easier.  Is it a lot more work to make them self extract?

#7 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 05:09 PM

View PostBoniPiket, on Dec 15 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

I agree with Paul 100% about the cars but, from what I´ve understood from Bruce´s post, the updated Ferrari is a resume of what the other cars will be if this update works fine...so if the Ferrari drives better with this fix, changes will be made to the other "I-want-to-spin-no-matter-how-many-wings-I-have" cars, so they´ll be more predictable and stable...

Correct - this is to test that we have made improvements... no sense spending time on fixing the other cars if the fix doesn't work.  Once we know that we have the Ferrari working, we can implement the changes to the other cars with instabilities (such as the Vette)

View PostPaul Danrich, on Dec 15 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

Self extracting files would be sooo much easier.  Is it a lot more work to make them self extract?

If you want to participate in development testing, you need to be willing to manually do some things like copy files.  In the download post I commented that you need to copy the files to their respective folders.  Having us do the work only takes a little time, but it all adds up... and I assume you'd rather test than wait longer for the latest updates.  It's not hard to copy the right files - they are pretty self-explanatory :)
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#8 TimCollier

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 05:10 PM

View Postjohn jogan, on Dec 15 2009, 03:18 PM, said:

with the 12h package, you're still unable to select the different brake disc sizes.  i'm gonna assume this is to purposely force drivers to use the correct package in the endurance races.  brake wear was barely noticeable after 10 laps, but as you stated above, not sure if 10x mech wear works in practice or just in race mode.

In the past, the different brake sizes were a choice for any and all race conditions.  Now, there's one pad thickness, the standard size used by all racing teams, and the wear rate is adjusted depending on the endurance package chosen.

Also, to be clear, what's happening now is in comparison to the 2-hour package, the endurance packages alter the brake wear rates as follows:

2-hr package - 100% rate (duh)
4-hr package - 50% of 2-hr rate
8-hr package - 25% of 2-hr rate
12-hr package - 16.67% of 2-hr rate
24-hr package - 8.33% of 2-hr rate

This is far more consistent than in the past reduction of brake wear rates whereas each package's reductions were only slight and really didn't relate directly to the distance increase.  This is far more accurate and predictable.

For comparison, each package also has an engine horsepower/torque reduction and fuel mileage increase:

Horsepower Reduction

2-hr package - 100%
4-hr package - 98% of 2-hr
8-hr package - 96% of 2-hr
12-hr package - 94% of 2-hr
24-hr package - 90% of 2-hr

Fuel Mileage increase (these numbers are approximate)

2-hr package - 100%
4-hr package - 102% of 2-hr
8-hr package - 104% of 2-hr
12-hr package - 106% of 2-hr
24-hr package - 111% of 2-hr


So, as you can see each package has it's advantages/disadvantages, and for endurance races will certainly make choosing a particular endurance package more strategic.  Some of you may think that the 2% steps in horsepower/torque reduction per package may not be much...but when you're talking 2% of a 500 horsepower engine = 10 horsepower, you're going to miss those 10 ponies, and 10% is a 50 horsepower reduction on the 24-hr package!

All of this, along with the different tire compound wear rates should prove to make the racing a big strategy affair, as well as a major data gathering preparation!


One last thing....I'm attaching three setups made by Mike Tribble of Champion Motorsports to use in testing the Ferrari, Ford and BMW.  Mike is what I call the master of Motec, and while the car still has some things that may need work, with these setups Mike found major stability and possibly an indicator of things working well with the Ferrari F430, and maybe a hint into finding any other tweaks that need to be made.

Thanks again everyone for your time, effort and feedback....have fun!!

Attached Files


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#9 john jogan

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 05:17 PM

self extractor since i'm in the christmas spirit!

< (Bruce) edit : I have updated the fileserver with this self-extracting file.  thanks John. >
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#10 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:09 PM

one thing to remember about self-extracting... if you are on vista or win7 - it's been known to cause problems and not extract the way you expect.  If on one of these systems - usually best to extract to temp location and copy files.

I'll try to get back to making it easy on you... but I suspect I'm making you lazy doing that  LOL  ;)

Tim - thanks for sharing the details about the different packages.  I meant to do it... just haven't had time :(  Another few days and then Christmas season slow-down hits :)
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#11 Don Fryman

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:56 PM

Just installed the update and noticed that the Aston Martin was not included in the update......... just thought I would mention it in case it was an oversight.

Don
"Wouldn't it be better for the human spirit and for the soul of this Nation to encourage people to accept more responsibility to care for one another, rather than leaving those tasks to paid bureaucrats?" ---Ronald Reagan

#12 GAb

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:56 PM

...or at least include the directory structure starting with gamedata.
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#13 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 08:06 PM

no, it wasn't included.
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#14 TimCollier

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:52 PM

View PostGAb, on Dec 15 2009, 07:56 PM, said:

...or at least include the directory structure starting with gamedata.

Sometimes, we barely have time to throw anything together at all...all we ask for is a little understanding and cooperation.
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#15 TimCollier

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:56 PM

View PostDon Fryman, on Dec 15 2009, 07:56 PM, said:

Just installed the update and noticed that the Aston Martin was not included in the update......... just thought I would mention it in case it was an oversight.

Don

I'm sending it to Bruce now....and allow him to interject into testing as he sees fit.

Thanks Don, simply an oversight on my part.
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#16 GAb

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 11:27 PM

View PostTimCollier, on Dec 15 2009, 08:52 PM, said:

Sometimes, we barely have time to throw anything together at all...all we ask for is a little understanding and cooperation.

I'm not trying to point fingers mate. Was just trying to chime in on the previous convo with a simple, less involved method for you guys that would help the less PC savvy people greatly.

The manual work tends to throw a few people off, or at the very least, peeve them. The self extracting method will for sure cause more issues and forum posts than the pure manual. Everyone is used to the base directory structure and keeping up with multiple mod names and various builds can get confusing.

People love drag-n-drop. :D

Edited by GAb, 15 December 2009 - 11:28 PM.

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#17 Jon Backof

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:04 AM

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^This is what I pictured Garth when I read your post.......   :beerchug:

Edited by Jon Backof, 16 December 2009 - 01:06 AM.


#18 GAb

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:24 AM

THAT, looks nothing like me!  :D
i have a beard

Edited by GAb, 16 December 2009 - 01:25 AM.

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#19 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:09 AM

yeah, I usually do the drag/drop method starting at gamedata (as anyone who races here knows).  I will try again in the future - however as noted - Tim and I are both stretched really thin right now and we wanted to get it in your hands.  Yes, only takes a few extra minutes but those minutes add up quickly.  I know nobody meant anything bad with their comments
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#20 Bruce Fisher

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:36 AM

plesae update using the 12/15 patch before rejoining the server.
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