Monjuic


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#21 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:21 AM

View PostBurtAugust, on 22 April 2018 - 06:09 AM, said:

It seems gabe is questioning what 'the results stand' means.

Since the rules do not specify the results at the time of the mass disco, they must mean the final results, which is how it was ajudicated.

Is there anything giving away that reading? No.

But again, this race is this League's 2005 US GP from the looks of it, so...
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#22 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:26 AM

You're clearly very passionate Gabriele, I respect that. It's clear your team suffered the most from the mass freeze. It sucks.

I'm hoping for some clean finishes upcoming events for your team, and some positivity and selfbelief. Don't anticipate on damage runs, if anything. It will sit in your mind and you'll attract bad luck.

It's best to start a race with open mind, focussing only on yourself, without any expectations about the result. Together with practise, and selfbelief, you'll be best prepared mentally. It took me many mistakes and years to achieve that mental attitude.

I'm not trying to say how you should think or race, just trying to help from my perspective.
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#23 GrandPrixYannick

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:35 AM

How do the people who have benefitted from the mass disco feel about this issue?

I mean, Ed and Alex were to finish P7 & P10 and suddenly they got promoted to P3 & P4 due to half the field suddenly disappearing.
With that, gifted a lot more points and coins even.

Of course I can imagine you are happy with such a result, but given what has happened, would they really be happy with that result, or feel it was 'deserved'?
I remember Michael last year at Buenos Aires saying not being happy about his win as a large portion of the field just went away and he was granted P1.

And in conclusion, only half points have been awarded as it happened before the halfway point, but it is not the case now.
So I like to know what they think.

Edited by GrandPrixYannick, 22 April 2018 - 06:35 AM.

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#24 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 07:36 AM

View PostRobert Fleurke, on 22 April 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

You're clearly very passionate Gabriele, I respect that. It's clear your team suffered the most from the mass freeze. It sucks.

I'm hoping for some clean finishes upcoming events for your team, and some positivity and selfbelief. Don't anticipate on damage runs, if anything. It will sit in your mind and you'll attract bad luck.

It's best to start a race with open mind, focussing only on yourself, without any expectations about the result. Together with practise, and selfbelief, you'll be best prepared mentally. It took me many mistakes and years to achieve that mental attitude.

I'm not trying to say how you should think or race, just trying to help from my perspective.

I appreciate your effort, Robert, but this isn't an effect that will stand for "just" a race: it does modify the effect of at least two or three races to come, since we have to fix the balance with just one car. Thus, other than driving cautiously, we have to pray that nobody slams us, and you know how much of a wishful thinking it is: even Tandil, which is a straight line at the start, transformed itself  into a clusterfuck in matter of mere seconds after the green flag, so I'd not be too optimist about it.
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#25 MGL66

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 07:55 AM

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

Robert, I'm not advocating to change the rules after the race, just advocating to follow what has already been written. Quoting directly from the rulebook:
No, Gabrielle, you're not advocating to follow what has already been written. You're reading the rule incorrectly

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

"IF a race is not completed for any reason (such as mass disco) it must complete at least 1/2 the scheduled laps to be official. if less than 1/2 it will be rescheduled or replaced with an alternate track.
This part of the rule refers to a race in which EVERYONE is disconnected. If EVERYONE is disconnected, then the race will be considered official IF AND ONLY IF >1/2 of the race is completed. Results will be determined by running order at the time of the "mass disconnect."

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

a MASS disco=everyone - and the result would be "re-run, re-run on alternate track, or cancel event." that decision to be determined after the race.
Here is where "mass disco" is defined. A "mass disco" = everyone disconnected. EVERYONE. Not 1/2 the field, not >1/2 the field ... EVERYONE. Yesterday's race did NOT experience a "mass disco" as defined by the rules. This is very clear in the language of the rule.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

major disco=1/2 or more but not 'all' simultaneously disco
THIS is the situation that we experienced yesterday. It is defined as a "major disco", in which "1/2 or more but not 'all' simultaneously disco." Again, the language of the rule is very clear.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

result:
  before 1/2 way= 1/2 points to finishers

at or after 1/2 way=results stand"

The results following a "major disco" are written above in language that, yet again, is very clear. If a "major disco" occurs before 1/2 way, the results stand and finishers are awarded 1/2 points. This is exactly the situation that resulted from last years D1 Buenos Aires race.

If a "major disco" appears after the 1/2 way point in the race, then the results stand and finishers are awarded full pionts -- in other words "results stand."

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

Did the race stop AFTER the halfpoint? Yes.
Did more than a half of the drivers disconnect roughly at the same time? Yes, since 8/15 is more than 7/15.

Correct. You clearly understand what actually happened.


View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

But EVEN IF we don't take into account the drivers that got the short end of the stick before the disconnection, there were 9 drivers on the track at lap 36 (according to the RA), and FIVE of them were gone at lap 37. Still more than half got royally fucked in the arse by a disconnection.
I don't know anyone who disagrees with you here. More than half got royally fucked in the arse by a disconnection. GPL gave a royal ass fucking to to five drivers on lap 37. Does anyone disagree with that?


View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

So WHY the rulebook hasn't been applied? Anyone's guess apart from Bo's and the Stewards'. I don't want to be conspiratorial like Senna in Monaco '84... but sure something's off.
Here's where you make me really fucking angry.

The rulebook IS BEING APPLIED. You yourself copied and pasted the rules into your post which I have quoted above. The problem is NOT that the rules are not being applied. The problem is one or more of the following:
  • You are failing to understand those rules correctly, or
  • You think that those rules are illogical and/or unfair
If you are failing to understand the rules correctly, then I can forgive that. Sometimes people fail to understand what they read.
If you think that these rules are illogical and/or unfair, then I can respect that. Perhaps this thread will cause a re-examination of the rules as they currently exist. Bo has always welcomed input into oAo's various rules and systems.

But to accuse anyone of not applying the rulebook is simply factually incorrect.

And for the record, it is not "Bo's and the Stewards" who have made this decision. The Stewards were never consulted in this decision. The decision was made by Bo himself, based entirely on the rules in existence as they are written. There was no need to consult with anyone. So you've gotten two things wrong. First, you fail to understand the rules. Second, you denounce Bo himself for not applying the league's rules when in fact that is exactly what he is doing.

With that in mind, here's another fact for you to consider -- you owe Bo an apology.

Michael

p.s. I have more to write, but the forum will not allow me to post more quoted material. Part 2 will follow immediately.

Edited by MGL66, 22 April 2018 - 07:57 AM.


#26 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:21 AM

MGL, so you're okay with a Grand Prix ending with just 4 cars, in which most of the podium has been catapulted there by the code being wonky AND, according to the other drivers, this isn't the first time this kind of stuff happened and people are clearly miffed about it.
Also, you seem to be fine with a team with almost no financial possibilities to run with just one car in a "do or die" situation, having to pray for the best result possible and not get any penalty/damage in the meanwhile. At fucking Montjuich. In fucking D2. Good to hear that, if that can happen, then I guess Santa exists, the Toothfairy is real and Pastor Maldonado is the best driver of them all.

There's no merit in that, you have to just be lucky enough to not disconnect, consistency and good racing be damned!

Also, if the decision was all Bruce's, It's clear I don't owe Mr. Boembeke any apology: on a purely personal title (leave the rest of the team out of it), I repute him personally responsible for what the "race" has panned out for the team and for the economic distress it is now facing, since there's the risk to have a season completely fucking ruined just at the 5th race! Seriously, we've had plenty of bad luck this start of the season, but a completely retarded decision like this one really takes the biscuit, since it has the potential to make us close for good.

Again, since Montjuich has proved itself to be a clusterfuck time and time again with massive disconnections... why in HELL it didn't get blacklisted, but it did get his 4th time on the calendar?

Edited by Gabriele Maruca, 22 April 2018 - 08:26 AM.

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#27 BurtAugust

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:32 AM

Why do you need to race just a single car in D2?  You have the coins to fix the ferrari buy a Honda or BRM or both,  As to a T1 pileup you can always start from the rear and wait for the wreckage to clear.

Re having to drive a Honda welcome to my world.

#28 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:44 AM

View PostBurtAugust, on 22 April 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Why do you need to race just a single car in D2?  You have the coins to fix the ferrari buy a Honda or BRM or both,  As to a T1 pileup you can always start from the rear and wait for the wreckage to clear.

Re having to drive a Honda welcome to my world.

Because it's Montjuich: after repairing the Ferrari I'd sit again at 21 coins, which isn't nearly enough to cover both cars even in medium damages, which are a certainty in a race like this, especially D2.
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#29 MGL66

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:18 AM

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

Well, that's nice of you trying to check back all of your history just to see when and where the precedent has been set, but answer me this, if you please:

Has ever, in the 20+ years of racing that this Organization has done, a team being unfairly threatened in its very sustainability by a ruling being misapplied?
Because, it's what's happening here: we can get over the stolen podium because the disconnect rule has been written with an acumen on par with Donald Trump's tweets (or we couldn't be here arguing about how to intepret it) as long as a fair compensation is set, since it's not the drivers' fault if the server had a lot of hits and misses lately.
I've already addressed this above. No, to my knowledge, in the 20+ years of oAo racing, no team has ever been unfairly threatened in its very sustainability by a ruling being misapplied. Nor is that what is happening here. If you think the rule itself is unfair, that's one thing. But the rule is not being misapplied.

Furthermore, if anyone thinks that the rule is poorly written, he may suggest amendments to the language. If anyone thinks that the rule is unfair in it very nature, then he may suggest alterations to the substance of the rule. Bo has always been open to such recommendations.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

Problem is, we've been unfairly penalized by earning only 8 coins instead of the 20 we should be owed if the rule would've been applied correctly,
What in the name of Donald Trump's hairy pink butt are you talking about here? Your drivers earned 9 coins, not 8. If they were being given credit for a 2nd and 3rd place finish, then they would have earned  14 coins, not 20.


View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

the car has been unfairly deemed "unraceable" and so we should either repair it and have just a single lap to qualify (which is like throwing away the race on a track like this) or rent a new Honda, not be up to standards because it's a Honda in Montjuich, and have the risk to have both the Brabham and the Honda completely wrecked in the T1 mess. Do you see what is the problem?

Again, what in the name of Donald Trump's hairy pink butt .... Your Ferrari has sustained 1/3 damage (i.e. 12 coins worth), making it unraceable in its current state. Even if Yannick had finished the race you would still have to pay those 12 coins to fix the Ferrari (or buy a new Honda with 12 coins, if you'd prefer). Either way, you'd be spending 12 coins to race two cars at D2 Montjuic.

Furthermore, it should be pointed out that all drivers who experienced the late race disconnect have been credited with both starting and finishing coins. I'm not sure what rule Bo is basing that decision on, but I would have no objection in any case. Were it not for that, your situation would be even worse. You should be thanking Bo for that decision, not criticizing him for inflicting imaginary injustices upon you.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

Either way, we will run from the mid-pack, get fucked at T1 (because it always happens in this kind of tracks) and get back home with a bent Brabham, a broken Honda and a FUBAR Ferrari, with even less coins than before. At that point, we could just close shop and call it a season, because there is NO WAY to come back up from a mess like this if you're a privateer, much less if you're managing a team.
Running a team with poor finances is a difficult and unfortunate situation to find oneself in, whether in real life or in a simulator league. It happens. It's a part of life.

It's also a possibility in this league, the systems of which Bo has developed over the course of 20 seasons in an effort to simulate as many aspects of reality as possible. Are the systems (like the coin system, the damage system ...) and rules perfect? Of course they're not. They are as imperfect as GPL itself. But they have been developed over the course of many years and are in place to increase the likelihood of certain goals being achieved. One of those goals is car diversity. None of us want this to be a Lotus spec league. If you want the better cars, then you have to do things the right way AND have some luck. Otherwise, you might have to endure racing mid-pack in lesser cars for some, perhaps many, races.

If this, or any of oAo's systems, is not acceptable to you, then Bo is correct -- you need to find another league. Perhaps oAo is not where you should be, Gabriele. Over the last 24 hours you have been making emotionally-charged, inflammatory, and demonstrably false accusations on this forum. That simply cannot be tolerated.


View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

MGL, so you're okay with a Grand Prix ending with just 4 cars, in which most of the podium has been catapulted there by the code being wonky AND, according to the other drivers, this isn't the first time this kind of stuff happened and people are clearly miffed about it.
You're really raising three different, unrelated issues here :
  • GPL screwed people. Whether I am "okay" with that or not is irrelevant. It's a reality of the GPL world that will happen whether we like it or not. Clearly no one likes it. People got screwed. We all recognize that.

  • Bo screwed people by not applying the leagues rules. As I showed quite conclusively in my previous post, Bo APPLIED the rules. You accuse him of doing otherwise. For that, you owe him an apology. It's really that simple.

  • The rules as currently written are unfair and/or unreasonable. That is simply an opinion that you are free to express here. When you ask me whether I am "okay" with only 4 cars finishing a "major disco" race, I assume that you are really asking me whether I am "okay" with these specific rules as they are currently written. At the moment, I really don't have an opinion on that question. We agreed upon these specific rules following last season's major disco at Buenos Aires and I simply don't remember all the arguments that informed the current iteration of the rules. I'm not saying you're right or wrong in your disagreement about the current rules. But if you want to make that argument, then you are welcome to do so. What angers me is that you have done so in an improper and unacceptable way. Everyone in this league deserves comportment better than what you have displayed over the last 24 hours. Rather than approach this situation with rationality and grace, you have done so with anger and accusation. That approach serves no one's interest, including your own.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Also, you seem to be fine with a team with almost no financial possibilities to run with just one car in a "do or die" situation, having to pray for the best result possible and not get any penalty/damage in the meanwhile. At fucking Montjuich. In fucking D2. Good to hear that, if that can happen, then I guess Santa exists, the Toothfairy is real and Pastor Maldonado is the best driver of them all.

There's no merit in that, you have to just be lucky enough to not disconnect, consistency and good racing be damned!
I addressed this concern in the paragraph above (the paragraph that begins "Running a team with poor finances ..."). The systems are in place for a reason. If you do not like or cannot accept the rationale behind the systems that are designed to affect chassis choice, then perhaps oAo is not the league for you.

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Also, if the decision was all Bruce's, It's clear I don't owe Mr. Boembeke any apology: on a purely personal title (leave the rest of the team out of it), I repute him personally responsible for what the "race" has panned out and for the economic distress it is now facing, since there's the risk to have a season completely fucking ruined just at the 5th race! Seriously, we've had plenty of bad luck this start of the season, but a completely retarded decision like this one really takes the biscuit, since it has the potential to make us close for good.
What do you want from this league? What do you hope to achieve? Why are you here? Is your only goal to race in the best cars and finish toward the top? Can you find no pleasure in running mid-pack in lesser cars? I ask these questions because you seem to think that no one should ever have to do that. In fact, there are times when we all have to do that. It's not your or anyone's God-given right to contend for race wins and team championships. Disconnects happen. People run into each other and ruin each others' races. We have (imperfect) rules and systems in place to address these events. Sometimes they happen to an individual or a team more than anyone would consider fair. Chris Amon didn't have any luck over an entire Grand Prix career, either. Yes, it's frustrating when its happening to you or your team, but it's a reality that we all have to deal with sooner or later.

Again, if these are realities that you cannot accept with grace and dignity, then perhaps this league is not for you.

Michael

p.s. And now I need to get on with my day. I can't spend all day discussing league matters.

Edited by MGL66, 22 April 2018 - 09:26 AM.


#30 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:27 AM

View PostMGL66, on 22 April 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

I've already addressed this above. No, to my knowledge, in the 20+ years of oAo racing, no team has ever been unfairly threatened in its very sustainability by a ruling being misapplied. Nor is that what is happening here. If you think the rule itself is unfair, that's one thing. But the rule is not being misapplied.

Furthermore, if anyone thinks that the rule is poorly written, he may suggest amendments to the language. If anyone thinks that the rule is unfair in it very nature, then he may suggest alterations to the substance of the rule. Bo has always been open to such recommendations.


What in the name of Donald Trump's hairy pink butt are you talking about here? Your drivers earned 9 coins, not 8. If they were being given credit for a 2nd and 3rd place finish, then they would have earned  14 coins, not 20.



Again, what in the name of Donald Trump's hairy pink butt .... Your Ferrari has sustained 1/3 damage (i.e. 12 coins worth), making it unraceable in its current state. Even if Yannick had finished the race you would still have to pay those 12 coins to fix the Ferrari (or buy a new Honda with 12 coins, if you'd prefer). Either way, you'd be spending 12 coins to race two cars at D2 Montjuic.

Furthermore, it should be pointed out that all drivers who experienced the late race disconnect have been credited with both starting and finishing coins. I'm not sure what rule Bo is basing that decision on, but I would have no objection in any case. Were it not for that, your situation would be even worse. You should be thanking Bo for that decision, not criticizing him for inflicting imaginary injustices upon you.


Running a team with poor finances is a difficult and unfortunate situation to find oneself in, whether in real life or in a simulator league. It happens. It's a part of life.

It's also a possibility in this league, the systems of which Bo has developed over the course of 20 seasons in an effort to simulate as many aspects of reality as possible. Are the systems (like the coin system, the damage system ...) and rules perfect? Of course they're not. They are as imperfect as GPL itself. But they have been developed over the course of many years and are in place to increase the likelihood of certain goals being achieved. One of those goals is car diversity. None of us want this to be a Lotus spec league. If you want the better cars, then you have to do things the right way AND have some luck. Otherwise, you might have to endure racing mid-pack in lesser cars for some, perhaps many, races.

If this, or any of oAo's systems, is not acceptable to you, then Bo is correct -- you need to find another league. Perhaps oAo is not where you should be, Gabriele. Over the last 24 hours you have been making emotionally-charged, inflammatory, and demonstrably false accusations on this forum. That simply cannot be tolerated.



You're really raising three different, unrelated issues here :
  • GPL screwed people. Whether I am "okay" with that or not is irrelevant. It's a reality of the GPL world that will happen whether we like it or not. Clearly no one likes it. People got screwed. We all recognize that.

  • Bo screwed people by not applying the leagues rules. As I showed quite conclusively in my previous post, Bo APPLIED the rules. You accuse him of doing otherwise. For that, you owe him an apology. It's really that simple.

  • The rules as currently written are unfair and/or unreasonable. That is simply an opinion that you are free to express here. When you ask me whether I am "okay" with only 4 cars finishing a "major disco" race, I assume that you are really asking me whether I am "okay" with these specific rules as they are currently written. At the moment, I really don't have an opinion on that question. We agreed upon these specific rules following last season's major disco at Buenos Aires and I simply don't remember all the arguments that informed the current iteration of the rules. I'm not saying you're right or wrong in your disagreement about the current rules. But if you want to make that argument, then you are welcome to do so. What angers me is that you have done so in an improper and unacceptable way. Everyone in this league deserves comportment better than what you have displayed over the last 24 hours. Rather than approach this situation with rationality and grace, you have done so with anger and accusation. That approach serves no one's interest, including your own.
I addressed this concern in the paragraph above (the paragraph that begins "Running a team with poor finances ..."). The systems are in place for a reason. If you do not like or cannot accept the rationale behind the systems that are designed to affect chassis choice, then perhaps oAo is not the league for you.


What do you want from this league? What do you hope to achieve? Why are you here? Is your only goal to race in the best cars and finish toward the top? Can you find no pleasure in running mid-pack in lesser cars? I ask these questions because you seem to think that no one should ever have to do that. In fact, there are times when we all have to do that. It's not your or anyone's God-given right to contend for race wins and team championships. Disconnects happen. People run into each other and ruin each others' races. We have (imperfect) rules and systems in place to address these events. Sometimes they happen to an individual or a team more than anyone would consider fair. Chris Amon didn't have any luck over an entire Grand Prix career. Yes, it's frustrating when its happening to you or your team, but it's a reality that we all have to deal with sooner or later.

Again, if these are realities that you cannot accept with grace and dignity, then perhaps this league is not for you.

Michael

Michael, when I'll like to have morality lessons from the runner-up of a gimped race, I'd be asking Voltaire, not you. At least he screwed a lottery by buying all the tickets with his own cash.
Oh, and has Mr. Boembeke elected you as his own personal attorney? Let the man talk for himself. Let the official opinion of the oAo be known by the man who runs it.

[UPDATE] No wonder you're okay with the result, you're first in the standings and were running 5th in the race, this mess's your goddamn blessing!

Edited by Gabriele Maruca, 22 April 2018 - 09:31 AM.

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#31 MGL66

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 09:45 AM

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

Michael, when I'll like to have morality lessons from the runner-up of a gimped race, I'd be asking Voltaire, not you. At least he screwed a lottery by buying all the tickets with his own cash.
Oh, and has Mr. Boembeke elected you as his own personal attorney? Let the man talk for himself. Let the official opinion of the oAo be known by the man who runs it.

[UPDATE] No wonder you're okay with the result, you're first in the standings and were running 5th in the race, this mess's your goddamn blessing!
That's it, I'm through with you, Gabriele. Clearly you know nothing about me. If you knew anything at all about me and my history in this league, then you would know that there is no one in this league who is motivated less by self interest than me. I've displayed that on many occasions from long before you joined us.

Evidently you DO need a lesson in morality, you're just not honest enough with yourself to understand that. But I'm sorry, I have neither the time nor the inclination to offer remedial life lessons to someone not at all interested in learning them. So you're on your own now. I hope the real world treats you better than the virtual world does.

By all means, turn to Voltairre. If you can understand it.

Michael

#32 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:09 AM

Gabriele, I can understand you're disappointed and frustrated, but please give respect to Bruce and Michael. Without them this league would be nowhere.

Michael is the last guy wanting to profit by these events. He's an example for most of us on and off the track I reckon, well he is for me.

Because I've been in your position Gabriele, feeling like I was treated unfairly, mostly in S19, I can relate to your feelings. Please just try to accept and let go. As long you keep resisting the verdict, it will only frustrate you, and you'll do only more damage to yourself and others.
Well, my socks and shoes always match, is it luck?

#33 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:32 AM

View PostMGL66, on 22 April 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

That's it, I'm through with you, Gabriele. Clearly you know nothing about me. If you knew anything at all about me and my history in this league, then you would know that there is no one in this league who is motivated less by self interest than me. I've displayed that on many occasions from long before you joined us.

Evidently you DO need a lesson in morality, you're just not honest enough with yourself to understand that. But I'm sorry, I have neither the time nor the inclination to offer remedial life lessons to someone not at all interested in learning them. So you're on your own now. I hope the real world treats you better than the virtual world does.

By all means, turn to Voltairre. If you can understand it.

Michael

Heh, that's rich coming from a guy that has taken the podium with this farce, and with it the lead in the championship, in the top division nonetheless, who happens to be the same man who spent the better part of his day insulting a fellow racer with walls of text with a creative reading of the rules that would turn away in disgust even a priest. You might be the Pope and I still won't respect you after that. Also... this is the first time we've talked to each other, if you're through with me it sure does show your rather short fuse if what made you fume were literally two sentences.

Remember kid, EVERYONE has self interests: my interest is to see the race either repealed or corrected, yours is to keep what you "gained". Bo's is to keep this league afloat. Everyone racing here has the interest in winning. So don't try to mask yourself in higher ideals and selflessness, because everyone does something for a reason and/or some gain.

I don't have a God-given right, I'm not Elizabeth the Second, I'm okay with being in the red: I just ask to have fair, clear wording and fair, clear rules. Since this isn't the first time it has happened, it sure means that the wording isn't clear, the rule isn't fair and the application of it is inconsistent. Also, that the schedule is really not well-optimized at all: having a track that is known to cause mass disconnections for four non consecutive seasons is really something that would baffle even the most stupid among the toddlers.
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#34 JMF

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:11 AM

What a saga!

Congrats Roy! It looks like you drove well. I'm glad you didn't get stuck on the starting line this time.

Give it a break Gabriele.

View PostMGL66, on 22 April 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

Chris Amon didn't have any luck over an entire Grand Prix career, either.

In one way he had the greatest luck of all. He lived to a ripe old age without a great deal of physical suffering from his career.
Greg Taber

#35 Andrew Hutchinson

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:16 AM

Thanks Michael et al for the time you've put in on this matter. Go do something worthwhile and enjoy the rest of your day.

I've no worries for ZDR - they're stacked with talent. I really do hope someone within the team has tapped Gabe on the shoulder and said that this is a very bad idea. There was a lot of goodwill for him after Watkins Glen and Mexico City. It will take work to rebuild those bridges , if possible. Rob's S19 is a very good example of what can be mended, so I hold out hope.

So far as the garage situation is concerned - that seems pretty simple to this privateer. You get lots of coins racing the heavy cars and they're great fun to drive as a bonus. I really don't see why there is an aversion to them. Everyone is different I suppose, but for me, given how hierarchical  I am, it felt like I HAD to win in the Ferrari where as I NEED to win in the BRM. Having choked in both, the green car felt like less pressure (internal of course) and likely led to the better feeling I had afterwards even with crashing out for the first time added into the mix. I'm mentioning it because I'm probably not the only one who operates this way and I don't think the heavy cars need to be viewed as some sort of penalty.


Recent D1 history: two Coops on the front row. Winning car- Coop. Way to go Roy.  Michiel at Tandil in the Honda:)

Recent D2 history: Mick winning Schott with a Coop. Me on the front row with a tardy lap in the BRM at same. George's Q lap at Interlagos in the Honda. If JH, MC and TO are the most well rounded George is my vote for most rapid in D2. Dan in Adelaide leading the Honda armada home on OAO debut.

There will be more examples as the season draws out.


Andrew

Edited by Andrew Hutchinson, 22 April 2018 - 11:19 AM.


#36 Gabriele Maruca

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 12:10 PM

View PostJMF, on 22 April 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Give it a break Gabriele.

Next time you get robbed of something, tell that to yourself.
You'll feel (and look) twice more idiotic while you've being wronged.

View PostAndrew Hutchinson, on 22 April 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

I've no worries for ZDR - they're stacked with talent. I really do hope someone within the team has tapped Gabe on the shoulder and said that this is a very bad idea. There was a lot of goodwill for him after Watkins Glen and Mexico City. It will take work to rebuild those bridges , if possible. Rob's S19 is a very good example of what can be mended, so I hold out hope.

Andrew, problem is talent alone doesn't do shit when every single fucking race goes to hell, and don't worry about the tapping: we were all thinking to do what I said. It was a group effort and, since I'm the TL, I took the shit for the team. That's what a TL does.
Rebuilding bridges? Maybe. This time there will be some SS patrolling it though.
"Keep calm and go flat out!"

#37 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

Let's all try to calm down and be civil, OK?  We are here for some fun.  True, sometimes poo happens.  I didn't even get to start thanks to a disco when the grid screen came up.

#38 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 12:30 PM

View PostGabriele Maruca, on 22 April 2018 - 12:10 PM, said:

This time there will be some SS patrolling it though.

SS?! OK, it's time to close down the topic, Bo, because we've reached Godwin's Law ( "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1.").   :)

#39 Bo Bruce

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Posted 22 April 2018 - 12:35 PM

awe... really Pepe? it was just getting good, and i was curious to see how far it would go. but yeah, you're probably right - gone far enough.
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