Regarding Race At Pir/ Rolling Or Standing Start Debate


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#1 Michkov

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 07:43 PM

How are we all feeling about the start here? Usually on ovals we used rolling starts, mostly due to the sloped track making it hard to get going. Bruce mentioned that he'll go with the opinion of the league on this, so league have your say. Rolling starts, yes or no?
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#2 DDodge

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:17 PM

Yes
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#3 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 04:12 AM

I say always rolling starts on ovals. To be safe a single file start.

Not sure if the flagman here is on a tower, at Indy couldn''t see the flagman being on Pole, with a standing start. (triple screens/FOV)

#4 GrandPrixYannick

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 06:28 AM

Rolling starts are the safest bet. Does this also mean that the server will be set on 121 laps?

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#5 D_J

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 06:54 AM

Rolling start sounds sensible.

#6 MGL66

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:58 AM

I'd prefer a rolling start with 1x1 staggered grid. We've done that very well in the past.

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#7 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 09:51 AM

May I add a note of caution here? The last time we did a rolling start --- Daytona? --- one of our metric drivers was taking the first lap at 100 KPH, not 100 MPH. That didn't work too well. Perhaps at P.I.R. a better first lap speed limitation might be 80 MPH (130 KPH).  :)

#8 Bo Bruce

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 11:09 AM

excellent point Pepe!

the other 'comment' from me is - in the past, the tendency is to "jump" the start - gaining 3 to 8 positions .. because of the green already been waved.
may i suggest that NO PASSING is allowed til YOU (each one of us) crosses the S/F line~
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#9 Michkov

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:53 PM

View PostPepe Higdon, on 04 September 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

May I add a note of caution here? The last time we did a rolling start --- Daytona? --- one of our metric drivers was taking the first lap at 100 KPH, not 100 MPH. That didn't work too well. Perhaps at P.I.R. a better first lap speed limitation might be 80 MPH (130 KPH).  :)

The idea is that you follow the guy in front of you, not stick to a speed limit. That way the you are just doing whatever the leader is doing. It's essential here that the first car in line keeps the speed down and go a a constant pace so the field can form up. Then everything behind just emerges out of stick to your lane and keep the car in front at 10 or 2 o'clock.
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#10 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 07:55 AM

View PostMichkov, on 04 September 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

The idea is that you follow the guy in front of you, not stick to a speed limit.

With all due respect it doesn't make a lot of sense to have two lines of cars moving around the track on Lap 0 if they're not at least trying to move at the same approximate speed. Without it you could have the inside line moving at 100 mph and the outside line moving at 60 mph, or, in other words, a situation not much different than what we had in D2 at Daytona two years ago.

#11 Bo Bruce

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:02 AM

Pepe.. Michi noted after the green, we form into single file on lap1.
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#12 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 08:10 AM

We're not doing two lines starting from the grid, a la NASCAR 2003? Didn't we do that at Daytona in 2016? Am I wandering around in some sort of parallel universe along with all my lost socks ?

#13 snafu

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 10:42 AM

I don't see any mention of single file in the posts above. :(

But having said that considering it's such a short run to T1 I personally think a single file grid but not be a bad idea here, at least at the point the flag drops. Drivers can move up or down as they wish during the "pace" lap but at least a single file start ensures no one loses site of the car immediately ahead due to some weird POV setting.

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#14 Bo Bruce

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 01:51 PM

hey, i'm OLD... Michi's comment to me, was apparently done via a PM/chat ~
i think :P
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#15 Michkov

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 09:05 AM

View PostPepe Higdon, on 05 September 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

With all due respect it doesn't make a lot of sense to have two lines of cars moving around the track on Lap 0 if they're not at least trying to move at the same approximate speed. Without it you could have the inside line moving at 100 mph and the outside line moving at 60 mph, or, in other words, a situation not much different than what we had in D2 at Daytona two years ago.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. The leader is the only car that needs to keep to a speed limit. All P2 needs to do is to keep the same relative position to the leader. Let's say we'll use the standard 1x1 staggered grid P2 would keep P1s car on a line with his front left tyre. P3 does the same with P2 just to his right. And so on down the line.

That way everyone has to watch a single parameter, either speed if you are the first car in line or position to the car immediately in front of you. As long as the leader does not jump on the brakes this is a pretty foolproof system.
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#16 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 10:12 AM

Gotcha.  :)

#17 bobho-in

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:49 PM

View PostMichkov, on 06 September 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

You misunderstand what I'm saying. The leader is the only car that needs to keep to a speed limit. All P2 needs to do is to keep the same relative position to the leader. Let's say we'll use the standard 1x1 staggered grid P2 would keep P1s car on a line with his front left tyre. P3 does the same with P2 just to his right. And so on down the line.

That way everyone has to watch a single parameter, either speed if you are the first car in line or position to the car immediately in front of you. As long as the leader does not jump on the brakes this is a pretty foolproof system.

i Guess I'm a pessimist but I have never seen an error proof start on an oval here in Sim racing land.  People will take off for the pace lap at different speeds. Some will miss the drop of the flag at the start of the pace lap, and go full bore to catch up. And won't find a place to fit in because everyone else moved up. Some will just be lost and confused.  There need to be some practice starts.

Edited by bobho-in, 06 September 2018 - 06:50 PM.

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#18 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 07:52 PM

Clearly, there are those who have concerns over a start on a short oval but I for one do not share them.  At least, not here at PIR67.  The front straight is bone flat and the spacing of 10m per car gives every bit as much room as we typically employ.  Looks like SOP to me.  Standard Operating Procedure.

If you want a roller, I'm fine with that, too, but as Bob mentions, we'd do well to have some practice starts.

#19 Andrew Hutchinson

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 02:39 PM

Am I the first to get lost in the infield or just the first to admit to it? What could go wrong here?

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#20 snafu

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Posted 08 September 2018 - 03:21 PM

No Andrew, you're not the 1st, The first time I came out of the pits here I thought it was logical to follow the roadway thinking it would join on the back straight. Instead I found myself I don't know where with the "Twilight Zone" music playing quietly in my head.

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