Racing On Ovals Discussion / Suggestions
Posted 04 June 2016 - 10:20 AM
Posted 04 June 2016 - 10:38 AM
Edited by Claudio Pablo Navonne, 04 June 2016 - 10:39 AM.
Posted 04 June 2016 - 10:54 AM
Just before the start someone posted on the track chat that slower cars should stay to the inside. That wasn't my understanding of how things should work, so when we were underway, I stayed either high or low (but never in the middle) when overtaking cars were behind me. Perhaps it should be stressed before next year's oval that slower cars really should keep high. Arturo's reasoning could not be more sound.
I know Daytona isn't at the top of everyone's list of favorite tracks, but it's about five miles from my condo and between N2003 and GPL I've probably got more miles on it than any other track in the game. That being said, given the carnage that we saw in both division races, Bristol might have been a safer choice this year.
Posted 04 June 2016 - 11:25 AM
that was based on Doni's Post below, which I took to be rules of the road:
"As the curtain is about to go up on our D1 race, a final note...
I recommend that cars about to be lapped stay low on the banking. Faster cars pass on the high side.
IF YOU'RE SLOW, STAY LOW.
Don't even THINK of trying to pass me on my left, gys."
So please Commish......let's clarify what is a suggestion, what is a recommendation and what is a rule, shall we?
as for my race... I was stupid, only me to blame.
I had what I thought was a great setup, the "can't do anything wrong kind". The Cooper just didn't have enough poop to even stay in the draft for more than 3 feet.
After being lapped by a Ferrari, I touched the wall and slid into Niky. I'm very sorry about that my friend, but you probably saw in that split second that I was no longer in control.
I was elated to see you still running and finishing extremely well.
As for schools and skills.......... front runners in Eagles and Lotus should also be able to identify slower cars and slower drivers when approaching, No?
Posted 04 June 2016 - 12:24 PM
I read an email that included Doni´s comments and I supposed this was the rule to follow for this race. I thought that it was wrong, but I don´t discuss rules. In this particular case, I thought that, specially after doing some laps today in both unofficial practice, qualy and race sessions, the rule was wrong imho.
Running alone at Daytona, with an Eagle in my case, we are doing a bit more than 200mph, about 90 meters per second, and even faster if we are going in the draft. This, combined with the fact that oval setups are totally asymetrical, makes impossible to use the brakes to slow down the car before an emergency. Why? Because the car will spin out of control in any direction and the driver will be just a passenger. So the only possible actions are: a. to lift off soon enough or b. to point the car towards the inside and say a prayer for it not returning to the track and then use the brakes. Pointing the car against the wall is the worst possible solution since there are huge chances you will take out other car/s, specially in the first laps.
So the more speed you get the less control you have over your car if you face an emergency and, with the high speeds we can get at ovals, this is what makes drivers´ behaviour much more important that at, probably, any other kind of track. The key is being predictable. Perhaps somebody noticed that, if we watch the mirrors we can see other car running more about 4 or 5s behind. And it is advisable to watch the mirrors, no matter the position, while we are in the straights, or through the turns if we have nothing ahead. And we should do this 4 or 5 times per lap, and more if we are being followed by other car/s close.
Another important thing to notice is that at ovals warp plays a much more important role than at any other track. This is probably the most frequent cause of accidents imho, so running 3 wide through a turn is out of the question and running 2 wide is a big risk. This is why slower cars should go on the outside since this way 2 cars will be running together the shortest possible time through a turn and so the lower risk of an accident caused by warp.
Also all passes should be done on the inside, the left side. If 2 cars are fighting for position and the car behind decides to try a pass on the outside, that driver is taking a huge risk of finishing his race against the wall on the outside. At equal speed, a car on the inside has more room to the right to go wide than a car that is running close to the wall, so it is impossible, as in NASCAR, to keep a high speed on the outside line in the turns.
Bob Higdon raced with me at ovals for years and I bet he knows what I am talking about.
If we revisit ovals, imho it is a great idea to share setups but to share replays and to talk about the different techniques to be used at ovals it is also a must do. And since it is also important to get practice driving in a pack of cars, perhaps we should schedule 2 or 3 practice races before the season starts. I know many drivers hate ovals, but as a GPLer said once, there are no bad tracks, just drivers than can´t deal with them
And hey, running at an oval is the only chance I have to win a race at oAo, so I guess we should race them more frequently
Edited by Arturo Pereira, 04 June 2016 - 12:25 PM.
Posted 04 June 2016 - 12:41 PM
I have other fish to fry at the moment...Indycar Belle Isle Saturday race on the horizon...so will be back later for a more detailed report but firstly, I must say that my recommendations were just that. A recommendation. I did not set a 'rule' as I have no authority to do so. Bo put faith in my experience and I can say with a 100% degree of assurance that it was not misplaced.
Those of you whom are advocating a 'if you're slow, go high' policy need to re-think things. Majorly. Your thinking is coming from below your belt, not above your neck.
Posted 04 June 2016 - 03:40 PM
Backmarkers should not try to block and allow the overtake by yeilding the entry to the faster car and then make up the time by hooking onto the back of them , nobody has to lose time this way.
Everyone should stick to their side of the track when close to another driver (mainly applies during early laps).
Do not race a car that has lapped you.
Be predictable , be patient, be sensible.
If you intend to race ;
1. you should "test" the car with maximum fuel load e.g 40+ gallons , this will make sure the car is safe and won't bottom out unexpectedly.
2. you should try to do some running with others on the server, you will be surprised what can be learned just by watching.
3. you should search or ask for a set up if you cannot control the car consistently. ( I would provide a base set up if asked )
4. adjust your steering ratio, you will not need 7:1 on an oval ( I used 25:1 )
If in doubt ask!
P.S. I have driven the BRM here and it really hates the high line , so , I can see why Doni posted his comment ....... drivers should take things like this into consideration, but, as a general rule I would have to stick with "passing is done on the inside".
Posted 04 June 2016 - 08:09 PM
oAo League Admin:
Posted 05 June 2016 - 04:52 AM
Posted 05 June 2016 - 06:43 AM
Posted 05 June 2016 - 07:38 AM
Perhaps there should just be a separate section added to the rules about ovals - overtaking and exiting the pits. Then you can copy and paste them in the discussion just before those races.
Also, the setup at an oval is so strange that I'd suggest that there be some posted to help out. I know that Micheal Lowrey posted a great setup for our team that I would never have come up with on my own.
VOR GPL Race Series Manager
Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:26 AM
Unzip the content into your \sierra\gpl\players\Your_Name\setups folder.
Edited by Arturo Pereira, 05 June 2016 - 08:26 AM.
Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:27 AM
Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:36 AM
Problem with GPL is the tiremodel isn't made for ovals (NR2003 had four chassis/tiremodels for different type of tracks), and GPL lacks a spotter...at ovals when a car has any overlap, you need to give room, that's he main difference, and trusting your fellow driver to race close, being aware and holding their lines...for me it's common sense but for some the struggle to stay on track comes first I guess...but a track like Daytona is as simple as it gets I'm afraid, but you need to have a handle on the car...(strg ratio is very important to make tiny corrections)
Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:55 AM
There are some oval tracks, like Talladega or Daytona, where there is apparently a lot of room at the turns, but coming at 200/220mph into one of those turns makes the track less wider than it is. At fast ovals, like Atlanta, Daytona, Talladega, Texas, Ontario and so on, there is only one fast/safe raceline and it´s the inside one. Trying to turn on the outside, with the wall very close, it´s totally unsafe.
So imho, I would say that we should overtake using the inside line and so cars being lapped should use the outside line, which is slower in GPL.
This means that, while in practice, we should try both the outside AND the inside line to be ready for the race, even if we are running alone.
2. Exiting/entering the pits:
In this case, I would suggest to exit the pits AFTER turn 2, that is usually at the back straight. To enter the pits the safer way is to move to the left of the track at the back straight, to slow down and to enter the apron BEFORE T3. This is the safer way. We could abandon the track and enter the apron AFTER the last turn, but if we haven´t slow down enough, this is a crash waiting to happen.
Between the ones I have uploaded here today there are for all tastes. However, most of them were made for the qualy session and are not ready for a race. Usually, the race setup is directly derived from the one used for the qualy with some changes.
Generally speaking, setups for oval tracks are designed, as in real life, to help the car to turn left as fast as possible without overheating the RF tyre. This overheating will mean less grip from that tyre and lots of understeer. The way to deal with this is running slower for some laps, to soften the RF spring rate or both.
This is why setups for oval tracks show totally asymmetrical cambers, again as in real life. IndyCars also use different static ride heights not only for the front and rear, but also for the left and right side of the car, with the right side being set higher than the inside. We can´t do this in GPL,but we can play with springs rates and static ride heights at the front and rear.
One important thing to consider to keep control of the car is the steering wheel ratio. Since it depends on the wheel each of us is using, I would say only that we must use very high steering ratios for ovals, as higher as needed to avoid the car losing grip while turning in a violent and sudden way. In my case, I use 10 to 12 for road courses and 20 to 25 for ovals.
Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:11 AM
Bankings are characteristic of ovals, probably with the exception of Monza10k. The higher the angle of the banking, the higher the speed, the higher the risk of bottoming up. The solution is a compromise between speed, higher ride height and/or stiffer spring rates. Fortunately it won´t take long to learn an oval, but it will take a bit more time to know the proper raceline. One important thing: there is only ONE fast and safe raceline at all ovals. This is also true for tracks like Monza for instance. Any other raceline is slower, but can be safe to learn also the unusual racelines if one has to avoid a crash. The fact that oval setups are totally asymmetrical makes then very unstable and so using the brakes should be avoided. This helps if we noticed the problem early enough, so keeping the concentration high and watching what´s going on far ahead is very important. So if you have to use the brakes, step on them. This will keep the car going straight ahead with no steering, but will avoid the car hitting everything around. If this happens, try to point the car to the inside of the track and step on the brakes. Perhaps you will hit a wall, but you won´t hit the outside wall and go back to the track with no control, and so others won´t crash with your car.
Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:20 AM
And unless you are absolutely sure there is nobody behind you or to your left/right in the blind spot, NEVER change your raceline in a turn. Through the straights there is more room to even going off the track to avoid a crash, but at the bankings this is impossible without losing control of the car.
Also, never lift off suddenly when there is a car right behind you in your mirrors. Keep up your speed and your usual raceline. If that car is going to pass you, it won´t show up in your mirrors.
Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:21 AM
Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:22 AM
Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:25 AM
Well, I would not suggest to take a nap while running at 200mph. However, I would take a nap when wife and daughter want to watch "Titanic" again