Beta Testers Needed

A Short Test

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#1 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 08:20 AM

Hi, fellas!  :)

I should like to test a new procedure to allow long-distance races in GPL.  As you may be aware, GPL is currently limited to a maximum lap score of 128.  Beyond that figure, laps are not recorded.

This beta test will allow that limitation to be side-stepped by establishing teams running stints that, on an accumulated aggregate, reach a distance otherwise not attainable.  A minimum of two drivers are required per team.  That is the ideal since GPL limits the field to just 19 and that means nine, two-driver teams can enter.

How is this accomplished?  By use of Lee Bowden's Pit Stop Patch(v 0.22), it is possible to have a relay race involving drivers assigned to a team.  It's set up like a tag-team wrestling match.  You drive til you're ready to hand off to your team mate.  He takes over and cuts laps in one or two stints til it's time for you to resume.  The tag is managed in the pits simply by invoking Lee's patch.  You are not booted from the game and can sit there indefinitely.

For the beta test, I should like to secure committments from at least 14 members to set up seven teams.  More if possible.  The maximum is nine teams for 18 members.  The test will use our standard GP67 F1 cars.  (The concept is targeted at GPL GT sportscars but as not every OAO member uses that mod, we shall use F1 cars; they'll work out just fine)  The test venue is PIR(the Phoenix oval which is on our S21 schedule, btw)and the race distance will be just 40 laps.

Please respond in this thread your desire to participate.  Full details to come.  Date TBD.  Thanks.

#2 Bob Simpson

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 12:25 PM

I don't understand how the hand-off is done. Can you elaborate? Certainly you don't mean that two people need to be on the same computer. How then does someone take over? I haven't used the pit-stop patch yet.
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#3 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 01:09 PM

Hi, Bob!  The patch allows a player to remain in the sim indefinitely when parked at the player's pit stall.  It also refuels a car.  A team is comprised of at least two drivers in the same make/model of car.  Each drives his own and the laps are totaled for the result.  Note these screen shots of my tests at PIR and the generous room provided for pit in and pit out...

Attached File  pir01gt.jpg   83.11K   9 downloads GT cars; Team #9 pitside from the front

Attached File  pir02gt.jpg   82.57K   10 downloads GT cars; Team #9 pitside drone shot

Attached File  pir03gt.jpg   83.78K   9 downloads GT cars; Team #1 pitside from the front

Attached File  pir04f1.jpg   79.04K   8 downloads F1 cars; Team #9 pitside F10 view

Attached File  pir05f1.jpg   54.84K   9 downloads F1 cars; Last starter on the grid F10 view(green flag is up)

I cannot control the AI to have a team sit side-by-side in the same car.  Just imagine that to be the case.  When it comes time to hand off to your team mate, simply pull in alongside, activate the patch by raising your arm and go for a well-earned beer while your bud takes over.  Piece of cake.  :)

A full set of details is in the works but this should give you the idea.

#4 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 03:27 PM

I'm in.

#5 Michkov

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 04:04 PM

If it's a single date count me in.

Are you running this in race mode or practice? I've been pondering how to make an endurance race work with the GPL limitations lately too, Targa has that effect on my brain :). Never had the idea to put both driver of a team on the same server though. Looking forward to a detailed description how you imagine this.
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#6 snafu

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 04:53 PM

I would be very interested.

Sounds like a great idea Doni. Perhaps in conjunction with the Night patch? http://srmz.net/inde...showtopic=11736

TTFN
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#7 Aljones

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 04:57 PM

I too would like to participate :wiggle:
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#8 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 05:33 PM

Excellent comeback, gents.  Thanks.

It really is quite crystallized in my own mind and as a result, seems rather facile.  When I lay it all out for you, first impressions might be, 'MUMMA MIA!'.  Over the next couple of days, I shall pen the 'how to' and hope to have Bo free up our OAO server for a test.  And it won't be a long, drawn-out affair.  It's not necessary.  Just a test of the validity of the hand-off procedure and lap accumulation.

I've mentioned that up to nine teams may participate in a race.  That means just two drivers/team.  Here's a theoretical based on who's posted in this thread thus far...

Team #1 > Doni & Bob S > Ford Mk2; for F1 > Brabham BT24
Team #2 > Pepe & Michi > Chaparral 2D; BRM P115
Team #3 > John H & Alain > Lola T70; Cooper T81B
Team #4 > ...

As for the Night Patch, I have yet to consider employing it, John, but it would seem a real natural, wouldn't it?  Thanks for noting it.

The last image I posted above was the F10 view of the last starter, J-P Beltoise.  He's quite far from the starter's stand.  I made no effort to tighten up the spacing but could easily do so.  Then again, this is a twist of the parameters of GPL to enable long-distance races consuming much time.  Would it really matter?  Not for Jacky Ickx(LeMans, 1969)

Also referring to that image, see the cars in pit lane?  One of those is JPB's team mate awaiting his turn.  Get it?  Got it?  Good!  :)

Get PIR loaded and get some laps down in practice, gys.

#9 snafu

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 06:23 PM

Just to clarify.. Are we talking pir67?

I was wondering (As a proof of concept) if we might be better using one of the original tracks or at least one we know has no issues. Hopefully pir is in this category.  The last thing anyone wants is to enter the pits desperate to visit the little boys room only to find no team driver due to a disco. What happens if a screen freeze during the race?

Just trying to eliminate as many variables as possible as I would really like this to become a regular event on the calendar possibly with oAo teams .

TTFN
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#10 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:36 AM

Hi, John.  I selected PIR as it is a very short lap.  The purpose of the test is two-fold: the validity of the hand-off in the pits and the accumulated aggregate scoring.  Asking members to devote some amount of time to this is an ask in its own right and I didn't want to use a track of any great length, .  And yes, the track folder is 'pir67'.

Screen freeze?  You're KIA, I guess.  Poo does, indeed, happen.  PIR is on the S21 sked so I would hope that our TSG fully tested it prior to making it one of our championship circuits.  If it bombs, scalps will be taken.  :)

I have two options for placement of cars in the pits.  Side-by-side vs nose-to-tail.  At this point, I think that the former offers less chances of a screw-up for the tag hand-off.

I intend to spend much of today honing a procedural document to be published in the next day or three.  Time is a factor as our regular OAO season summer break restart is not far over the horizon.

#11 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

GPL Enduro Series Races

Hi, fellas!  :)

What follows is to be considered the playbook for this concept.  Hope you don't find it too confusing.

------------

This post is intended to fully describe and explain how to achieve long-distance races in GPL which, til now, have restricted users to a maximum lap scoring count of 128.  Papyrus designed this sim for F1 Grand Prix and in no races did the count exceed 100.  Fair enough.  Events such as the Indianapolis 500 Sweepstakes could not be properly scored.  As well, GT sports and prototype races were not feasible where the lap count went beyond 128.

Now, with the development of Lee Bowden's Pit Stop Patch(v1.0), it is possible for a team comprising at least two drivers to essentially double-up on the lap count.  More than two drivers?  Three or four or more?  Doable but with restrictions thanks to the number of participants being restricted to a maximum of 19 spread over the teams entered.  Maybe sometime down the road, the code will be broken on the particpation limitation.  Fingers X'd!

The Patch
Lee's patch does two things.  It refuels a car to the race setting AND keeps a car in the sim indefinitely.  The patch must be nominated in GEM by ticking the box shown.  The activation of the patch is dead simple.  Pull into the pits and approach your pit stall with care.  You are looking for your pit stall board which, for now, will be alongside your team mate's car.  Stop when your stall board disappears.  At this point, raise your arm.  It is this action that triggers the patch.  The board should reappear and commence flashing.  This is the indication that the patch is working.  When it stops flashing, you are fully gassed up and ready to resume.  Should you pull up short, inch forward til the board disappears.  If you overshoot...raising your arm does nothing after a few seconds...you putz...reverse slightly and try again.
The patch is available here...

http://gplmotorworks.gplworld.de/

How is the team setup and managed?
Each team will be assigned a make/model to drive.  The team members will join the server in sequence to ensure that they are paired in the pits.  This is vital.  Get the order of server join wrong and you'll be in the wrong stall.  The Chief Steward will be very cross and a server reset will be likely be required.  The driver and co-driver of a team each use their own car set to their particular tastes.  The setups used may be light-years apart in their details but that's not a factor as each driver is using his own preferences.

Qualifying
Only the lead driver in the team qualfies for the event.  The co-driver sits out the session.  The grid will be set based on the usual lap times and the layout configuration will be generously spaced.

The Start
The lead drivers take to the grid as per usual with their slots determined via qualifying.  Co-drivers join but thanks to the track.ini file, they are placed in the pit area in their appropriate stalls.  They do not move.  Should co-drivers miss the start, they can join after the field is flagged away as following a 30 second intermal, the green button should appear again.  Striking it to join late will place you in your stall.  No harm; no foul.  Miss the green button this time, though, and your team mate will have every right to flay you alive.  You have effectively been DQ'd.

Strategy/Approach
Let's take a look at the 1967 Brands Hatch 6-hour race as an example.  The winning effort came from the drives of Phil Hill and Mike Spence in the Chaparral 2F with 211 laps in the books.  As you can see, this is well outside the ability of GPL to score for a lone driver.  Our two-driver team can split the drive into segments totalling that lap count with a 105/106 spread or otherwise.  The number of pit stops for driver swaps is up to the team.  Perhaps stints of 35 laps each is ideal.  Seems so.  Nothing says double-stinting can't be done.  Your choice.

The Hand-Off
Let's say that you are the lead driver in a team and you take the start for the first stint.  You have conferred with your team mate prior to the race to determine strategy(full tanks or other)and the length of that first stint.  Perhaps you've decided to double-stint off the start.  Your choice.  When a driver swap is planned, the lead driver will simply pull into his stall and activate the patch.  All the while that the race has been running, the co-driver has been watching the action on track from his car via use of the 'V' and 'F10' keys.  The co-driver should have a good idea when the lead driver is ready to pit for the hand-off so should be prepared some minutes in advance.  The co-driver may not move off to join the race until the lead driver has come to full stop in his pit stall and remained motionless for at least 10 seconds.

Driving Duty Split-Up
I should think that the minimum contribution by a co-driver be 1/3 distance.  Should a member of a team have to stand down mid-race or be disco'd, the other driver may carry on as best they can in hopes of a result.

Monitoring
Team members can keep track of the on-track action from their pit stall by cycling through the fielf with the 'V' key.  Views are restricted to cockpit and F10 chase.  The Pribluda utility will prove most beneficial in helping keep track of laps scored.  I don't use it myself but for the purposes of keeping track of things and knowing best when to pit, I can see it as a useful tool.  Otherwise, I'd just use my pit board/pit guy to help me keep track of things.

Chat
Not allowed.  A team must have its strategy in place before the race.  If you need communications, talk to your mate over your cell phone or setup a dedicated TeamSpeak channel(is that doable?  dunno).

Mode
Races will be set with Intermediate Damage allowing resets.  Pro damage might be preferred but is just to restrictive and punitive.

Results
A lap count will determine the finsih of the race even if historically, an event is run via the clock.  The number of laps set will be determined from records set back in the day.

Classification
Apart from the results.  This takes into account damages suffered.  I would consider applying a scale of time penalties for damages sustained over the course of the event.  Tentative values?  Minor reports = 5 minute penalty per.  Severe reports = 10 minute penalty per.  Reset = 60 minute penalty per.  These time penalty values would be deducted from the overall time run by a team and their lap count reduced accordingly.  As an example...
A race is set for 200 laps.  Team #1 wins taking exactly 5h00m00s duration but incure fully 1h00m00s worth of time penalties.  Result?  160 laps credited.  That reflects the 20% lost in time penalties as determined from GPLRA's Mechanical Report.  Team #4 finishes second on the road with 190 laps run and records 00h30m00s worth of penalties.  Their payback is 10%.  Result?  171 laps credited.  Team #4 is declared the overall winner.  Fair?  I think so.  Draconian?  Possibly.  Team #4 had a much cleaner race rewarding accuracy, precision and reliability over speed and isn't that the way of 60's enduros?

---------------

I'm sure that I've overlooked something somewhere but as of now, I think that we're good to go.  Perhaps there is a wrinkle in GPL that I'm not aware of that prevents these enduros.  I do know for a fact that many, many years ago, a league ran the 1000km of the Nurb...that's 44 laps...with solo driving chores.  Never heard that it didn't work so...

Successful testing may see the adoption of the Night Patch to further enhance the experience.  Stay tuned...

Comments and suggestions welcome.

GPL.  Just won't die.  :)

Doni

Edit: HA!  That didn't long.  Already missed a point.  Each team is pre-assigned a make/model to drive.  For the most part, with a limited entry, that means that you'll never come across the same car you're driving in a race.  That particular car is reserved for your team mate.  With entry counts beyond the number of chassis available, you may.  We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Edit #2: See two important revisions regarding qualifying and race start procedure below in post #15

#12 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:48 AM

Three points:

1) We will be using GPL cars, of which there are seven choices. There could be a maximum number of nine teams. Obviously the entry counts could surpass the number of car types available. I am sure I'm missing something here, but why are we concerned about duplicate car types in the first place?

2) It seems that the best way to enter the server predictably would be from the chat room. I know I was able to get into the chat room during the team draft for last year's season but I haven't been in there since. I need to know that I really can get in that room easily and reliably, so maybe a practice session with someone (Bo?) while having real-time access to a telephone might be in order.

3) Speaking of telephones, back in the day I was connected during team races in NASCAR 2003 with a guy in California. It was an almost necessary part of the entire experience. I hope my teammate lives in the U.S. :)

Edited by Pepe Higdon, 19 July 2018 - 09:48 AM.


#13 Bo Bruce

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

Pepe
the chat room via iGor is always 'open'.. the pw is same for race.
whoever is 1st to enter the room pw is only checked if that person has the pw entered.

but anytime you want to see if you can enter, and want me to meet you, just email me :)
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#14 snafu

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 02:47 PM

Are we running at 36 or 60fps for this?

Does having pit stalls either side of the start/finish line cause any issues with lap counts? (I don't think so, but a few too many lemonades for my brain to be 100% sure). :ozbeer:

TTFN
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#15 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 03:58 PM

Thanks for the input, gys.  Much appreciated.  Answers below but first...

In some more testing today at PIR, I have determined the following which now seem to be cast in stone.

1. The piece above notes that co-drivers shouldn't go out in qualifying.  Scrub that.  To ensure that the co-driver has his pit stall board activated, it would seem necessary to get onto the track and do an outlap and then immediately pit without setting a time.  On entering the pits, your stall board should be seen.  Pull up and test the patch by raising your arm.  Once satisfied that the patch has kicked in, retire to the menu and wait for the start.

2. Under no circumstances are co-drivers to go to the grid(where they should be placed in pit lane, by rights, if I've written the file correctly)for the race start.  My tests today reveal that this totally buggers up the patch.  BOOHOO!  However, it has also been learned that by intentionally missing the start, allowing the field to get away and then pressing the green button is the correct procedure.  Be sharp or you'll miss out entirely!  There seems to be no need to raise the driver's arm.  I ran three races over as much as 12 laps just sitting in the pits and wasn't booted.  The patch was operational.  Additionally, and this was a revelation in today's tests, it seems that the delayed start for the co-drivers is essential in that they get dropped into the correct pit stall.  Who knew?

As for Pepe's note regarding entries, a team of two drives the same make/model simulating a single entry.  For more than the seven slots open for GP cars, duplicate cars can run as a team.  There's no problem in that.  What a team must be aware of is that at no time should both its cars be on track at the same time.  If so, something has gone terribly, terribly wrong.  By rights, any time that you see a duplicate of your chassis out there, it's the enemy.  :)

John...  As this is an addon track, I believe that we'll use the standard 36 fps mode.  Here at PIR67, the pit stalls are split either side of the S/F line.  This is a concern as to laps recorded as one team starting down-track of the line may get shorted a lap during the tag/driver swap but there's every likelihood that it'll even out with one driver scoring at least one more lap than his mate.  At this time, the plan is for a 40-lap race with swaps at 10 lap intervals.  Of course, I still need to clear everything with Bo regarding the booking.  With luck, maybe July 28?

#16 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:13 PM

Almost forgot...

Here's a zip containing a handful of files that will boot all those crew members out of the pit area and give you a clearer view of pit lane.  I know that Bo hates those gys so here you go, boss!  :)

Attached File  pitppl booted.7z   428bytes   5 downloads

Open and drop the contents directly into your pir67 folder.

#17 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 05:38 PM

Wait a minute?  Why I am blowing my brains out and having all the fun?  Let's get you involved!  Try some offline races yourselves and see what problems might still exist.  Grids of up to 17 AI should work.

In the zips, files for running your own races with revised pit lane slots and grids.  A backup to the original supplied, too.

Unzip and install to your 'pir67 folder.  Go racing'!

First, the backup file...

Attached File  pir67 trackini original.7z   1.44K   3 downloads

Here, the self-same track.ini files I'm using fully up to date.  Give 'em twist and hope to hear back from you soon.

Attached File  pir67 enduro trakini.7z   1.45K   5 downloads

Have fun!  :)

#18 Michkov

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 05:42 PM

So many gears that need to mesh with this scheme. Not sure this will be scalable given the amount the driver has to keep in mind. Still up for giving it shot though.

View PostPepe Higdon, on 19 July 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

3) Speaking of telephones, back in the day I was connected during team races in NASCAR 2003 with a guy in California. It was an almost necessary part of the entire experience. I hope my teammate lives in the U.S. :)

Dont think I do. I figure we fill the tank for 12 laps and run until the fuel runs out. That gives us two stints for a 40 lap race and 4 times to see how the handover works.
I just wanna race

#19 Pepe Higdon

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:42 PM

Michi, I think you and I are still a theoretical team, not yet committed to a serious relationship:

View PostDonnie Yourth, on 18 July 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

Here's a theoretical based on who's posted in this thread thus far...
Team #2 > Pepe & Michi > Chaparral 2D; BRM P115

:)

#20 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 06:52 AM

Hi, Michi.  Yes, that pretty much describes it.  Two drivers + two stints of 10 laps each = 40 laps.  Driver swaps at 10, 20 and 30 overall lap points.  Alternatively, 8-16-24-32-40.  For the latter, the breakdown for your hypothetical team would be...

Pepe nominated as lead driver; Michi co-driver...

Pepe > starts on the grid; Michi joins after the start and sits in his pit stall; Pepe pits at the end of Lap08; Michi takes over; team total lap count = 8
Michi > drives til he sees eight laps run then pits; team total lap count =16
Pepe > takes over for his 2nd stint with his first lap recording Lap09 and ending at Lap16; team total lap count = 24
Michi > commences his 2nd stint with his first lap recording Lap09 and ending at Lap16; team total lap count = 32
Pepe > takes the last stint and finishes with 24 laps run; team total lap count = 40

As a lap at PIR is just 30s, it shan't take long to get a result.

Since my last posting, I've done some more tests this time using Pribluda.  As noted previously, this is a utility that I'm largely unfamiliar with and have never used it in a race.  I can see advantages for it as it helps keep track of things.  I ran a couple of 24-lap races using it with just five AI.  Two shunted off early and it was interesting to see that as I did two short stints, I climbed the Prib leaderboard to finish P4, about 16 laps down.  My pit board flashed me signals that despite being so many laps behind the next man in P3, it kept track of how many laps remained in the race for me reference the leader counting off L3, L2, L1 to the finish.

At this point, I do not see anything more to address in terms of bugs.  Please do download those track.ini files and test.  The more input through test miles the better.  i'd like to spend part of today experimenting with the Night Patch.  :)




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