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#21 Ronnie Nilsson

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 04:08 AM

George, no problem.  It just happened at the place where there was least visibility for both of us.  Obviously I saw you, and made the split second decision to go left, but you were reversing, and the door shut in my face!  I'm just amazed that I was able to carry on.

#22 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 04:55 AM

View PostDDodge, on 08 September 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

Maybe I'm just not good enough to be in this league.

You're good enough for this league Don, and I'm not trying to talk you down. We're all in this for the fun ;)

But I hope you do recognize what you did wrong and will try to learn from it...

No worries Don.

#23 Claudio Pablo Navonne

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 08:17 AM

On Friday I had an operation on my left knee (orthroscopy), so I couldn't use my left foot for the clutch. So I accelerated up to 4000 rpm and put 1st, the car made an almost complete spinning top, they raised the rpm to almost infinity and therefore resented the engine. When I wanted to take it out of the sand in parabolic (a stupid thing on my part) broke a valve (according to GPL)

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#24 snafu

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Posted 09 September 2018 - 10:16 AM

Well, really glad to have that one behind us and thanks to the TSG for giving us such a relatively uncomplicated track for Darren's Memorial. Even so I still had to prize my hands off the wheel at the end as my fingers had seized up.

Qualified in 2nd behind Mick just ahead of Bob S, I had practiced with Mick earlier in the week so knew he was fast here. I would have liked to have recorded only my 2nd 1:27 which would have been enough for Pole but still satisfied with the 1:28.3

Bob made his (As usual) lightning start but I seemed to get everything hooked up as we shifted into 2nd and was surprised to find myself leading by Curve Grand just head of Mick.

As the race unfolded Bo, Mick and myself ran together for the 1st 3rd of the race, we dropped Bob and I began to realise he was probably going for a none stop race so it was important to gap him as much as possible leading up to my pitstop. I just couldn't shake Mick or Bo until a coming together between Bo and Mick meant it was just Mick harassing me at every opportunity. As we began to lap other drivers Mick was still well up my chuff with rarely more than a hundred yds between us.

Apologies to anyone who might have been surprised by the urgency of trying to get past but I needed to put someone between Mick and me every chance I got and was beginning to worry that if he wasn't planning on stopping I was up s**t creek without a paddle.

The moment of the race for me was on lap 29 when we came across ZZ & Kayo? on the run down from Serraglio to Ascari. They were battling hard and I wasn't sure if they had seen us coming. ZZ was to the left of centre while Kayo? was to the right with about 3 car lengths between them. I weaved through both leaving Mick having to wait until the exit of Ascari so giving me about a 400yd advantage. I lost it all a few laps later waiting for a suitable moment to safely pass Tomy. (No complaints, just caught him at an unfortunate place on the track).

A few laps later just before the planned pit stop there was the unfortunate misunderstanding with Don which resulted in both him and Micks race ending, Really sorry, I had scrubbed off 30mph from my normal speed through Ascari and thought Don would hold the racing line but he drifted back across and I had nowhere to go. :( Hit the armco really hard and fully expected to see wheels and stuff bouncing down the track but somehow came out of the other side. But the Eagle had took a battering and I could feel it in the handling. I was only  lap or so off my pit window so eased off and elected to take the Sh-R instead of my planned use of the Pit stop patch as even thuogh I felt I could cope with the handing I wasn't sure if there was any engine damage waiting to haunt me later in the race.

The 2nd half of the race was largely uneventful having a good gap back to Bob S in 2nd. Came across Bo with about 10 to go but he was lapping close to the lead pace so was able to sit a few hundred yds off his tail keeping a watch on Prib in case Bob suddenly put in a few really fast laps.

Has a weird Prib problem with 3 to go and thought I was going to either disco or freeze before finishing the race. My name was dimmed on the leader board and disappeared off the "Track Position" board completely. Not sure what happened but was really glad when I crossed the line and was rewarded by seeing a chequered flag being waved. I knew the server was still seeing me as I could see other cars on track but it was a weird experience.

Thanks all. On to the slot car oval known as PIR. Oh Joy.

TTFN
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#25 zzbusch1

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 03:31 PM

John said,

The moment of the race for me was on lap 29 when we came across ZZ & Kayo? on the run down from Serraglio to Ascari. They were battling hard and I wasn't sure if they had seen us coming. ZZ was to the left of centre while Kayo? was to the right with about 3 car lengths between them. I weaved through both leaving Mick having to wait until the exit of Ascari so giving me about a 400yd advantage. I lost it all a few laps later waiting for a suitable moment to safely pass Tomy. (No complaints, just caught him at an unfortunate place on the track).

I was chasing Kayo when John just showed up in mirrors. I had no idea he was there. I knew from 10 laps earlier, he was probably being chased by a second Eagle. He sliced through before either of us could react.  Nicely done BTW.  A little dangerous, but you did it. Mick showed up in my mirrors just after you passed. At that point, because I was chasing Kayo, I really couldn't let him through until we were through Ascari. I needed to try to catch Kayo.   Sorry Mick, I let you by as soon as possible.

This is the conundrum I have with being a back marker.  It's difficult to chase someone and not impede the leaders or  passing cars. It can be very frustrating. I have to pick my place to let people by, especially when I'm try to gain a position, or get into maybe 10th.  I have to ask you guys to show some driving skill (not just speed), and let us back markers find a spot to let you by so we can continue our race.  Bullying us off line or pace, just ain't cool.  We know we're slow, just give us a chance and show us some driving skill.  Being fast isn't driving skill.

Rant over.

It was a fun race, a little long, but fun.
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#26 snafu

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 04:24 PM

I didn't realise I had "Bullied you" at all. Sorry if it appeared that way, :sorry:  We were on a straight section of track and I know you are both good drivers. Had I been running alone I almost certainly would have waited until the run down to Parabolica. I didn't think either of you were in any different position in relation to each other after the pass than you were before. Had I found there was not enough room to complete the move safely as I came level with you I would have slowed.

I have the greatest respect for everyone in this league, and remember my time as a G1 driver being faced with the same conundrum as you describe. My 1st race with oAo was at Monaco, (Talk about a baptism of fire).

TTFN
John.
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

Fast, Cheap, Reliable. Choose any 2.

Beat it to fit, paint it to match..

1 in 4 people in the world are mentally unbalanced.
Look closely at 3 of your closest friends. If they seem OK it's probably you.

#27 Bob Simpson

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 06:14 PM

Watching that part of the race on lap 29, I don’t see any problems. But it seems that Busch felt that the passes were too hurried. Both the lead cars passed cleanly as far as I can see, although chances are always taken with any pass.

I always feel that the lapping cars encounter the same traffic as those ahead or behind and the same goes for those being passed. It’s disruptive for everyone – just part of the game. In fact Busch gained one second on Michiels on that lap, possibly due to Michiels having to slow a little more. Chapman lost three seconds due to passing Michiels at an awkward spot. Often it’s all the other way around but it usually averages out.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but I think that the cars being lapped are required to yield by definition/rule despite the battles that they’re engaged in. Of course they don’t have to jam the brakes on and the lapping cars have to have some patience. We all have to be cooperative but since (as I saw it in the replay) nothing dangerous happened I don’t see why there would be any complaints in this instance.
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#28 Bo Bruce

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Posted 10 September 2018 - 09:26 PM

the situation is covered on the oAo web / here: http://oao-gpl.speed...net/BasicsA.htm
but to save the trouble of finding, i have copy/pasted it here :)  (note some is outdated as we don't allow D2 in D1, but 'faster/slower' still applies)

What do faster drivers  'expect' when they find themselves gaining rapidly on a car ahead, esp with regard to back markers.
In oAo D1 races for example,  D2 drivers sometimes fill the grid when openings present themselves. but this gap of talent has its risks. To avoid affecting anyone's race, i wanted to get an idea from the faster driver, as i can speak for myself as a slower one :)    here's basically what they said:
-----------------------------------------
Slowing down, almost to a halt, on the racing line, is not something you can expect!  When you are being lapped there are two courses of action:
Either you move off the racing line and slow down a bit, preferably on a straight just after exiting a corner, staying close to the inside of the corner - OR
you keep on the line, wait for the driver behind to make an overtaking maneuver, and then lift when he's no longer on your rear.

Those are the safe ways to get lapped, and that is what we expect when we encounter lapped cars. Stopping on the racing line, or lifting while a car is right behind you, is very risky and will most likely cause accidents.

No one expects a back marker to drive onto the grass when he first sees a faster car in his mirrors hundreds of meters behind. All that is expected of him is to be predictable, be smooth and keep his car under control. The latter is the hardest and mistakes will happen, but the former should not be an issue regardless of your speed and skill.
------------------------------------------
Adding my understanding, the best places to allow a smooth overtaking, is AFTER a turn, NEVER before a turn (this would agree with the above comment to be smooth, and predictable).... or ..... on a straight where you can hold your line and as stated above, once the faster car is close and when they move out to complete the pass, slightly lift, then resume.

As posted in the rules, if you receive the blue flag, contrary to many beliefs, it does NOT mean - move over! rather only information  that a faster car is closing. if you are being lapped, then don't make it hard for the leaders to get around you. someday, the situation you might find yourself in the same situation, only in the faster car.
Racing a faster car is foolish un-necessary and unsportsmanlike. Why do it? he's already shown he is faster, he's lapping you! Make life a bit more enjoyable for all concerned and let him by. else you increase his frustration, and your anxiety, both good recipe's for disaster later in the race.

so for all 'us' back markers,  DON'T PANIC!  be smooth, be predictable... know the faster car will find the way around, but sometimes when you try to help, by slowing, you actually make it worse...even dangerous to both~

thanks for reading all this, and hopefully it will help make all our races more enjoyable!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from this i will also add, that yes.... sometimes the faster drivers are impatient, looking for any opening around a backmarker with the hope of increasing even a bit more of a gap to the car chasing them.
it seems to have ever been so, at least in online racing, as there is little fear of injury/death as in real racing.  i like to recall the words of Al Unser Jr. when he said with regard to overtaking "i like to follow the car i'm behind for a lap if possible, just so he knows i'm there"   the point being - we can communicate our intentions to each other.

i'd love to see this happen from everyone - but if only 1 or 2 commit to the task, it won't ever become the norm.
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#29 zzbusch1

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:06 AM

Sorry guys, I don't mean you were bullying me or Kayo.  It's just that I've been in situations where I've not had a chance to move over.  I think you took me the wrong way. You guys were very good passing. I'm just asking for a little more patience in passing back markers. We are in a race of our own.

BTW, I'm not complaining about the pass, it was done quite well. I just thought I'd rant about passing back markers in general. Just a thought on a subject I thought needed a mention.
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#30 MK3424

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:19 PM

I know i wasn't the fastest out there... But it isn't easy to just 'move aside' to let somebody pass you, i try to move over where i can.

Like i did let others pass when i moved to the inside of the lesmos, be it after the first or second lesmos, the other place is parabolica where i stay on the inside all along the front to give the passing cars a slipstream to let them pass me...

(I'm still editing the recording and exporting issues is giving me a headache)


#31 Mick Chapman

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:19 PM

So, just browsing through through, I have come across comments about back markers/from back markers.

So, just to be absolutely clear, I had NO problem with ANY back markers....Some were more challenging, but that is racing, sometimes I lost more time than John, but that was mainly due to where we were on track.

You are all racing for position, the race for the lead is no more important than  a race for 11th etc.
You do NOT have to move over, just be predictable. Allow the lapping driver to "read" your intentions.
I try and "show" my preference for lapping by the positioning of my car. But you must recognise when a pass is being made just like when being passed for position.

Use the free practice to practice being lapped.......If I am practicing with D1 drivers and one of them exits the pits shortly after I have passed the exit, I use that oppotunity when they catch me up, to try let them pass without loosing any time, but safely.

#32 MK3424

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 01:21 PM

As promised.. the video.

https://www.youtube....h?v=GI2A9B1IcmE

Currently still trying to develop my own editing style...

Hence why my video are varying in quality.

The disconnection stutter has been resolved by editing the gplshift autoresize chat fontsize.

#33 Andrew Hutchinson

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 03:00 PM

I look forward to your videos every time Kayo.

Thanks again,

Andrew

#34 Bo Bruce

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Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:14 PM

thanks Kayo!!
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