On The Subject Of Safe Starts - In Particular Turn 1


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#1 Bo Bruce

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 02:26 PM

Please don't force me to include auto "no overtake on Lap 1" type rules.

this league has always been about, in fact formed on respect. It's good that people take responsibility 'after' the fact and that for the most, handle situations that end someone's race before it begins, very professionally... but this has to be improved.  Sure, we'll never eliminate incidents in total.  But people spending 2 weeks preparing then being eliminated on lap1 will only lead to their leaving the league in frustration and some anger.

shall we have an auto penalty as iRacing does? that no matter WHO is at fault, ANYONE involved is penalized?  no.. i think that is ridiculous - but i if i leave  it to the racers, and nothing changes, i'll have to in order to maintain a league!

i'm open to suggestions - but i'm considering what i've hinted at - or - prove me wrong and improve your starts.
post your idea here, or email me private, but in the end,  i must do what i consider BEST for the LEAGUE

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#2 snafu

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 03:57 PM

Personally I would not like no passing zones at race start at all. . .

There are probably a myriad of reasons why it's a bad idea but what about giving single file grids a try? In theory that should mean any overtaking attempt would present itself as it would later in the race and probably the same mental approach would prevail. It would make little difference to the incident at the last D1 Mosport race but I put that into a different category to the issue being discussed here.

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Edited by snafu, 09 August 2015 - 05:02 PM.

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#3 col bentley

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 05:08 PM

I really don't think punishing innocent drivers that are collected by someone else's poor judgement as doing the league any favours.

I would like to see a system where you have points put on your licence. Too many incidents and you have penalties applied ...... Like "start at the back" etc....... It would normally be run on a rolling 12 month time frame and not wiped at the end of the season automatically.

There are different types of drivers, some are quite aggressive and need to respect that constantly driving very close to others will increase the chances contact. This year from a quick memory check I have been hit 5 separate times when just trying to mind my own business, twice it occurred on lap 1.


#4 Bo Bruce

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 08:10 PM

to be clear, i'm against both measures mentioned by John and Col -
the idea of tracking responsibilities for incidents (something Garnet was doing i believe, but i never saw) ....

for discussion,  3 'faults' (?) = 1 probation  (start at back of grid next race)
3 probations = 1 suspension (missed race)
3 suspensions = (surely we'd never get here) but would be out for remainder of season (?)
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#5 EFulghum

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 11:12 PM

Some tracks are really troubled heading into Turn1. On those tracks, it is best to get single file by Turn1 and race somewhere after the trouble area. I did suggest that, but alas, the adrenaline took over.

In my other league everybody's first lap is reviewed and any contact punished with points on a license - too many points and you have issues up to and including suspension - clean races remove points. Negative is it's A LOT for the stewards to do. And I think unnecesary. We have done clean starts in the past and we can do them again. Maybe more of a drivers meeting and a stern word/advice/orders from Bo before the server is started?

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#6 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 05:51 PM

No need to change anything, it's a shame for the recent D1 starts/lap 1 though...one thing we should do is practise starts, possibly at least two with a big grid, before the race. Eventual mistakes can be sorted out then, if it doesn't help, it doesn't hurt.

It is never good to take much risks before the field is a bit spread out. Still we are racing, but we shouldn't do divebombs on Lap 1, or contest the same space on the tarmac. I have the impression the overall practise rate is lower as well recently, in general, for some reason (holidays/summer?).
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#7 alex67

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 03:35 AM

My 2 cents.
@Bruce
avoid overtakes in lap one dont solve the problem, only put it one lap ahead;
@Colin
if this had happened to me, i would have stopped playing long before 5th hit;
@Robert
gooders is not a solution; the problem exist, it's real, and need care: several virtual drivers have stopped running because tired of being thrown out too often.

Problem.
Everything happens when a driver have a car in front; then, he think:
1 - i need to dont damage that car, in any way, also if this mean that i cannot overtake;
2 - i need to overtake immediately, at all cost, he's just slowing me.
Drivers can be divided into two categories, based on which priority they do at these two sentences.
Cautious: 1, then 2.
Aggressive: 2, then 1.

Solution.
It's a mental problem.
Need to induce a different priority scheme in brain of aggressive drivers, so that they can mantain their abilities under control, avoiding to damage other players.
How to obtain this ?
In my experience, armed peace is preferred solution.
If damaged players dont claim, nothing change, and nobody will be put in front of their responsibilities.
In real world, there are lot of protests, but if judge is fair, players accept sanctions and more awareness will be acquired from everyone.

#8 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 07:30 AM

Incident-free starts are next-to-impossible to achieve.  Over at the ADC, they had rule for the longest time of no passing til after T1.  Most times, that worked out OK and everyone got nicely into their opening lap.  Sometimes, however, on circuits such as Monaco, there would be the most gawd-awful shunts going into T1 on Lap01.

For some time now, I've been setting the grids for the oAo and look to space things out with a minimum of 7m between grid slots.  Most times, that gap is 10m.  I can make it 50m if you like.  ;)

(And still there will be the odd shunt when some poor bugger bungles the start or blows his engine on the line and the starters behind get little advance warning of trouble ahead.  Viz Canadian GP, 1982.  :()

In all honesty, just let it be...

#9 Bo Bruce

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 11:17 AM

so... between Doni's "let it be" and Alex's "If damaged players dont claim, nothing change, and nobody will be put in front of their responsibilities."  (which by the way is parallel to my thinking :) )  
is where we'll go
no new rules, but encourage drivers to report collisions and assign penalties so that everyone knows we need more caution, less aggression.
this falls on the Team Leaders to pass on to their drivers, as well as myself - so lets move on, and prep for season 19 with that approach.
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#10 Donnie Yourth

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 03:30 PM

I think that decision is equitable, Bo.  The watchword for any start should be caution.  People should be more concerned about safety and maintaining their position rather than gaining them.

#11 EFulghum

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Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:00 PM

I think you try to get what you can off the line. If it's clear you are not pulling ahead of anyone and you are two wide, then something must give. I was side by side with a Ferarri heading into Turn1, and we both lifted to give room to each other :P  Realizing what was going on, I gassed it to get single file before Turn1 - but I stayed on the outside lane thru Turn1 just to be sure. Then I saw cars flying and cars stopped everywhere. I ended up clunking into the outside hay bales and continuing but then was spun by another car.
Anyhoo, racing to Turn1 is fine, but you must know when to give, get single file, make it thru the twisty bits, and then race after that. No matter how bad you want to stay ahead, sometimes you must yield.


Eric
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