Preseason Testing


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

#61 BoniPiket

BoniPiket

    Senior Member

  • Mybroga
  • 727 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sao Paulo - Brazil
  • Interests:Golf, Tennis, Music, Racing Simulators

Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:01 PM

View PostTimCollier, on Dec 10 2009, 02:03 PM, said:

....Do the GT cars feel as though they have either/both too much engine braking and/or differential power/coast?  Also, do the back end flips seems to occur on downshifts, almost like when you downshift too quickly?

...and I have contacted Bruce about having an update for the cars, and then we can release a 4-Class test package that will include more LMP cars than ever before.  The prototypes drive great already, in my opinion, and the GT cars are the big hold up in having a race ready mod (from the sound of things), so with the focus of the GT car drivelines...

Thanks for your patience...it's testing, which isn't always fun I know, and the feedback is definitely appreciated.  All of it.

Id say too much engine braking and unbalanced feel when aproaching a turn: Im using MORE Coast on them than on v2.65 to keep the car steady while braking...may need to use more wings too...
Positivelly the hook tendency is on downshifting no matter how soft and early I brake. The rear always seems too loose and wants to pass the front of the car.
Also theres a tendency to point the nose to the inside of any turn when leaving it...I am using MORE Power than on v2.65 too, trying to correct that.
...and these happens to all cars for me (the BMW was the more stable)...

We sure dont want no Meganes to race in - wiselly words, TJ! - but I keep thinking if driving the real ones are that hard...

BTW, its always fun and thrilling track and mod testing, and I hope we normal people can help you out is some way...
I think you all are trying to do the best to have an always improoved MOD - and this one is a rFactor TOP 3 IMHO. :bowdown:

Just a sugestion: please, dont mess THAT much with the Lola EX 257 !!!! :P
Posted Image
Luiz De Boni

#62 Rubleman

Rubleman

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Interests:PC/Console gaming, soccer, motor sports

Posted 10 December 2009 - 03:34 PM

To me the power/coast seemed to be ok.

The back giving out on quick down shifts has been very common on all cars, some more than others. Heavy bliping on the down shifts corrected that. Also, throttle input on the breaks helped a lot, at least with the Vette.

Biggest difficulty for me was the snap oversteer on turns if I lifted the throttle suddenly.

For sure the ride height adjustments are much more important in this version. Selecting higher wings helped a lot, especially the front all the way at 3 was critical. In 2.65 I don't think I ever had the front at 3.

I must say that these cars are a lot more fun to drive than the 2.65 version.
Racing as Alex Winston

#63 Ryan Mayfield

Ryan Mayfield

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 267 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Daytona Beach, Florida

Posted 10 December 2009 - 04:11 PM

View PostBoniPiket, on Dec 10 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

Just a sugestion: please, dont mess THAT much with the Lola EX 257 !!!! :P

LOL...the EX 257 should be featured in a museum alongside Fred Flintstone's car.

You'll have many more Lolas to choose from Luiz, dont you worry  :beerchug:

#64 TimCollier

TimCollier

    Champion Motorsports

  • VOR Admins
  • 1,200 posts

Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:08 PM

View PostRyan Mayfield, on Dec 10 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

LOL...the EX 257 should be featured in a museum alongside Fred Flintstone's car.

You'll have many more Lolas to choose from Luiz, dont you worry  :beerchug:

Shhhhhh!!! Don't give it away!!!  :D
Tim Collier - Champion Motorsports

Co-Developer ILMS 2010 Mod

#65 TimCollier

TimCollier

    Champion Motorsports

  • VOR Admins
  • 1,200 posts

Posted 10 December 2009 - 05:09 PM

View PostRubleman, on Dec 10 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

To me the power/coast seemed to be ok.

The back giving out on quick down shifts has been very common on all cars, some more than others. Heavy bliping on the down shifts corrected that. Also, throttle input on the breaks helped a lot, at least with the Vette.

Biggest difficulty for me was the snap oversteer on turns if I lifted the throttle suddenly.

For sure the ride height adjustments are much more important in this version. Selecting higher wings helped a lot, especially the front all the way at 3 was critical. In 2.65 I don't think I ever had the front at 3.

I must say that these cars are a lot more fun to drive than the 2.65 version.

Alex, which car were you driving, and why did you select it?  Also, have you tried the other cars?  Just wanting to make sure that it's a near consensus situation....
Tim Collier - Champion Motorsports

Co-Developer ILMS 2010 Mod

#66 Ryan Mayfield

Ryan Mayfield

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 267 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Daytona Beach, Florida

Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:31 PM

View PostTimCollier, on Dec 10 2009, 06:08 PM, said:

Shhhhhh!!! Don't give it away!!!  :D


oops..i mean uhh..."Lola" as in the popular name given to our grid girls here at VOR. The old EX 257 model was worn out and has since been replaced by the younger, sportier girls  :P

#67 doval

doval

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 575 posts

Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

View PostTimCollier, on Dec 10 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

Let me ask everyone something....

Do the GT cars feel as though they have either/both too much engine braking and/or differential power/coast?  Also, do the back end flips seems to occur on downshifts, almost like when you downshift too quickly?

I have a theory, and it's something I'll look into more over the next 24-48 hours, and I have contacted Bruce about having an update for the cars, and then we can release a 4-Class test package that will include more LMP cars than ever before.  The prototypes drive great already, in my opinion, and the GT cars are the big hold up in having a race ready mod (from the sound of things), so with the focus of the GT car drivelines, I'll research the relevant sections of the cars and see what might be a problem.

Thanks for your patience...it's testing, which isn't always fun I know, and the feedback is definitely appreciated.  All of it.


Perhaps engine braking?? I feel like I have turned up the coast setting on each car I have tried. The consistent issue I have had is the feeling that each chassis wants to fall over on the nose very quickly causing the snap oversteer situation. Now, first knowing the default setups have not been worked explains this to some degree. I used the same idea Scott did and I raised the front anti-roll bar all the way (for the Vette) and raised the front springs into the 1150lb range. With the Porsche I had raised the rear rebound way up and was able to run the front bar at 1.5 but was able to run 2/13 wings. It is proving very difficult to set the car up instead of difficult to drive.

Now I took the same setup that I ran a 2:03.8 with the Vette and Sebring and took it to Mid-Ohio and it wasn't even close. At Mid Ohio it had massive understeer all over the place. One of the things I most liked in previous versions of the mod was the ability to transfer a setup from track to track with minor adjustments for the specific nuances of each track. Whether it be a bumpier surface, tighter track, overall faster etc.....
Chuck



Posted ImagePosted Image

#68 Rubleman

Rubleman

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Interests:PC/Console gaming, soccer, motor sports

Posted 10 December 2009 - 10:22 PM

View PostTimCollier, on Dec 10 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Alex, which car were you driving, and why did you select it?  Also, have you tried the other cars?  Just wanting to make sure that it's a near consensus situation....


Sorry, was referring to the Vette. The setup was a bit strange as had to raise the front height more than the rear. Also had to max the springs on front and just about on rear.

I tried the Aston and BMW also. The Aston for me was the easiest to drive, even though I set it up very similar to my Vette  - pls see my setup posted earlier. Aston was just easier to turn in, and did not have as much over steer as the Vette. It did lack a bit of speed. BMW's setup was more traditional, or more like version 2.65 setup. Nothing real new in this car. Vette for me was slightly faster, and more consistent in speed over several laps.

Reason I picked the Vette was because it felt like it provided the most feedback as to weight transfer. It was more difficult to turn in, I had to break earlier, but again, it was just more fun and challenging to drive. Besides, I loved it's sound, lol.
Racing as Alex Winston

#69 TimCollier

TimCollier

    Champion Motorsports

  • VOR Admins
  • 1,200 posts

Posted 11 December 2009 - 12:30 PM

View PostRubleman, on Dec 10 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

Sorry, was referring to the Vette. The setup was a bit strange as had to raise the front height more than the rear. Also had to max the springs on front and just about on rear.

I tried the Aston and BMW also. The Aston for me was the easiest to drive, even though I set it up very similar to my Vette  - pls see my setup posted earlier. Aston was just easier to turn in, and did not have as much over steer as the Vette. It did lack a bit of speed. BMW's setup was more traditional, or more like version 2.65 setup. Nothing real new in this car. Vette for me was slightly faster, and more consistent in speed over several laps.

Reason I picked the Vette was because it felt like it provided the most feedback as to weight transfer. It was more difficult to turn in, I had to break earlier, but again, it was just more fun and challenging to drive. Besides, I loved it's sound, lol.

Thanks Alex, it sounds to me like you've acquired a taste for the feel of the new cars.  That's great to hear.

I do have a few things I'm looking at....stay tuned, as Bruce and I are working on the next test.
Tim Collier - Champion Motorsports

Co-Developer ILMS 2010 Mod

#70 tomas

tomas

    Member

  • Members
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buenos Aires - Argentina
  • Interests:chemistry<br />SIM racing - rFactor + SIDLM!<br />music - progressive rock<br />vinyl's<br />keyboards - synthesisers + hammonds<br />web design - Fl + Fw + Dw + PS<br />FSX<br />basketball

Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:25 PM

It the last hours I've taked a serious test at Brands Hatch (I know that all you you are at sebring, but in this track I'm much more comfortable), doing more than 50 laps.
First of all, I found the BMW more stable than the Ferrari, the Porsche or even the Viper. Then I proceed to take the test and here are my conclusions:
With default setup (that is crap) the car feeling was something like these:
At slow corners, at entry: major oversteer, at exit: minor oversteer
On fast corners: oversteer
At bumps: hard to control
Also, at braking, the car was very unstable.
Primary solutions that worked somehow:
Springs: at front +3 (clicks) at rear (-6)
Antiroll: at back: detached, at front no changes
Slow Bumb: at front 20 at back 1
Slow Rebound: at front 1 at back 14
Fast Bump and Fast rebound: at front and at back all in 1
Engine Brake: +1
And more front brake bias.
After that, I felt the car more stable, but...at slow corners keeps over steering.I know if I keep working on setup probably I gonna found the right one.
Things that I think that should be improved:
-Tire temperatures are lower than in v2.65, Idk if optimal temp is lower too...but...after 6/7 laps the average temp for med comp. it's around 90~100C with tire pressure at 180kPa +/-
-Car should be a little more stable at low speed corners.
After all, I have some fun with the BMW, it's harder to drive that in v2.65, it's more challenging like that. Hope that things get more realistic.
In comparison to records that I have with v2.65 GT2 cars...my best lap was in 1:18:642, and...with the Pheonix BMW, was in 1:25:500...I could improve 2 or 3 seconds I guess....but is far away, I am driving more carefully, always with the sensation that the car is in the tip of my fingers and always trying to ride smoothly.
VOR Driver, Tomas Manrique

#71 Bruce Fisher

Bruce Fisher

    Senior Member

  • VOR Admins
  • 4,500 posts
  • Location:Charlotte, NC

Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:53 AM

View Posttomas, on Dec 11 2009, 11:25 PM, said:

With default setup (that is crap) the car feeling was something like these:

-Tire temperatures are lower than in v2.65, Idk if optimal temp is lower too...but...after 6/7 laps the average temp for med comp. it's around 90~100C with tire pressure at 180kPa +/-

Quote

that's part of your problem. I've noted before - this is still a development build and there is no default settings. The "default" settings are basically random - they are not correct.

Regarding tire temps - yes, ~95-98C is the right optimum temp
Posted Image
Posted Image

#72 tomas

tomas

    Member

  • Members
  • 48 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buenos Aires - Argentina
  • Interests:chemistry<br />SIM racing - rFactor + SIDLM!<br />music - progressive rock<br />vinyl's<br />keyboards - synthesisers + hammonds<br />web design - Fl + Fw + Dw + PS<br />FSX<br />basketball

Posted 12 December 2009 - 10:54 AM

View PostBruce Fisher, on Dec 12 2009, 12:53 PM, said:

Regarding tire temps - yes, ~95-98C is the right optimum temp

Ok tire temps are right then. I use the default only for reference to the changes I made later, I only run...4/5 laps with that setting.
Lowering Caster helped a lot in the corner entrys.

Edited by tomas, 12 December 2009 - 01:16 PM.

VOR Driver, Tomas Manrique

#73 Jon Backof

Jon Backof

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:28 PM

View PostRubleman, on Dec 10 2009, 10:22 PM, said:

Sorry, was referring to the Vette. The setup was a bit strange as had to raise the front height more than the rear. Also had to max the springs on front and just about on rear.

I tried the Aston and BMW also. The Aston for me was the easiest to drive, even though I set it up very similar to my Vette  - pls see my setup posted earlier. Aston was just easier to turn in, and did not have as much over steer as the Vette. It did lack a bit of speed. BMW's setup was more traditional, or more like version 2.65 setup. Nothing real new in this car. Vette for me was slightly faster, and more consistent in speed over several laps.

Reason I picked the Vette was because it felt like it provided the most feedback as to weight transfer. It was more difficult to turn in, I had to break earlier, but again, it was just more fun and challenging to drive. Besides, I loved it's sound, lol.
I agree with Alex. The Aston was certainly just as quick for me as the BMW, but I could be more consistent in the BMW. You can definitely feel the weight transfer in the new cars as well, but it seems that all of the cars either have a lot of engine break now (easy to overcome if you are patient with the downshifts) but they also seem to have a lot of rear bias, so I had to move the brake bias forward a good bit to over come the brakes locking up over the bumps at Sebring in the braking zones.

However, I couldn't come to grips with the Corvette. It seems whenever I pushed the the Vette to the limit it would bite back and either oversteer on exit, or push on entrace to corners. Though this is the car you can feel the most weight in.




Sim Racing Links