Toe In - Toe Out Values


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#1 pennydata

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 10:30 AM

I'd like to know what are your preferences for toe in - out max values.
Infact I've taken a look to base ADC setups I've found on the forum to make a comparison with my habits, the first thing I've noticed is the huge amount of toe in - out on these setups: -400 +600

According to me, those values are too much, for example: I've always applied -200 max forward and +300 max rear, because they seemed to me sensible and 'real'.

Indeed I've  had a try with the 'huge values' and (good for me) my best lap are crashing as a miracle.
My question is, aren't this setup too much extreme? Am I cheating with these setups,?they just don't seem to be 1967 genuine value, or am I wrong?

What values do you use for toe in toe out, if I may? Are your setups like those ones or are any different?

thank you guys, by the way Monza best has gone from 1.33,15 to 1.31,8 (on a Brabham)
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#2 SteveC

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 10:52 AM

I learned from Rich DeLong a long time ago, that these values tend to cancel each other out, meaning that a front value of -400 and a back value of +400 pretty much will turn like having a value of 0 for both, except it will feel a bit more unstable the higher the values are.

Since then, I've kind of found that to be the case. That's why you won't find much toe in my setups. In fact, in the mods, I generally leave the rear at 0 and raise or lower the front as needed to increase or decrease turn in. In the 67's, I've started doing the same, unless the setup is way oversteery, in which case I will add some rear toe and move the front close to 0.

Your mileage may vary. :D

Edited by SteveC, 02 March 2009 - 10:53 AM.

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#3 pennydata

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 12:44 PM

So according to you a

-200
+300


is likely equal to:


0
+100

or


-500
+600



Anyway I thought an extremely open toe in toe out setup would lower the high speed, is that correct?
The mileage, yes that's the main point  :thumbup:  maybe my improving is more a matter of practice.
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#4 SteveC

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 02:37 PM

Well, that's what it feels like to me. It could be my imagination, but I don't think so. The car also, for me, is likely to feel more stable at 0, +100 than -200, +300. -500, +600 would likely feel even less stable.

It is also my understanding as well that the more toe you throw at it, the more it would scrub off straight line speed.

Keep in mind I don't really know any of this for sure. It's just what seems to work for me.
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#5 Mario W

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 07:45 AM

Hmm interesting.
I am no expert and i dont know how gpl works in that regard. I usually like a value of -0,150 to -0,250 at the front and +0,200 to +0,275 at the rear. Seems to me that its stable under acceleration (i contribute that to the rear value, or at least it feels like that to me) and give better turn in if i use a negative front value.
The closer i get to zero with those values the less stable it feels for me, sort of like the car wanders off on its own if i have very small toe values.
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#6 Mario W

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 08:54 AM

I just did a test on bloodbath comparing full toe (-0,5 front and +0,5 rear) to no toe (respectively 0 toe all around) because i remembered that i read somewhere once that gpl doesnt model the roll resistance of the whole thing. Seems about right, i didnt see a difference in top speed or different tire temperatures in both settings.
Anyway for me at least the car seems a lot less twitchy with some toe-in toe-out dialed in and behaves better, also i get a slight wandering effect when i drive in a straight line without toe, which is a bit of a pain and takes a bit concentration away for me. Considering that usually the fastest way around in gpl for me is the one with the least effort needed i would use a bit toe until it feels as easy to drive as possible.

see here for more detail explanation on toe
Ciao Mario

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#7 BurtAugust

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 03:48 PM

I always though that relatively high amounts of rear toe in made it easier to recover when the rear end stepped out.  Not sure this is true in GPL but I have used values as high as +.350 on tracks where I am tossing the car sideways more than normal.




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