Indycar And F1


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#1 D_J

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:25 AM

So after Alonso decided to give the Indy 500 a go Ive been watching and following the indycar series. As Ive gotten to know the series it strikes me that Indycar is in a much better place than F1 these days. The races are close and tight with a chance for a bunch of drivers to win on the day , its like a new world of racing.

Formula 1 is not in a good place. There are 6 (more like 4 )  F1 cars racing eachother and 14 other cars who look like F1 cars but clearly arent. I sincerely hope Alonso will ditch F1 for Indycar next season , that would be awsome to see.

#2 GrandPrixYannick

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 05:31 AM

Regretfully, this is true.
Formula One still hasn't gotten it together.

I don't really watch other racing classes even though I really should.
IndyCar is something I should definitely watch and the F2 appears to be also very exciting to watch.

Now F1 is trying to make amends in trying to simplifying the aerodynamics, thus less drag, cars easier to follow for 2019.
But it is just a matter of seeing if this will actually work.
A new focus on mechanical over aerodynamic grip (e.g. ground effect, active suspension) could work while keeping F1 the fastest race class there is.
And it is not like we are in the 1980s-1990s in terms of technology. We should have the R&D for it and its not like it is going to be dangerous as they fear back in those days.

Quite frankly they should just ditch the whole "it has to resemble something of road cars"-mentality. I think at this point the autoindustry can do without them.
From my POV, entertainment needs priority, without sacrificing driver safety.
But (exception here) they have to get rid of the criminal abomination that is the halo.
And bring the grid girls back, because they have fallen for the PC culture on that regard.
Out with the hybrids systems as well.
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#3 Bo Bruce

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 07:19 AM

IndyCar does have been 'racing' and more race winners, due to the 'spec' nature of the cars.
tho each car may have its own wing settings and suspension for example, the chassis is shipped to all equally built.
there are presently only 2 engines - Honda and Chevy. why is the Honda so much more competitive here?

another aspect is that IndyCar teams, share info - i think Alonzo said he was surprised at how open the other teams, and drivers were about cars and track.
i think it has to do with as much about each drivers own safety. if i can help you thru a corner better, it makes me safer to run close.

i could go on, but the bottom line is F1 (FerrariOne?) is to me, selfish in all aspects.  and why does Ferrari get 100million$$ before anyone else?!  talk about stacking the deck :o
they talk about leaving the series..ha!  i seriously doubt it.

F2 is exciting. never miss a race(s) the format is creative and the drivers are on the limit it seems for every lap. like IndyCar, the cars are spec, including the engine, so here you can readily see driver 'talent'.
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#4 Michkov

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:44 PM

Indianapolis cars have been some off the best racing this year for my two cents, even when people are complaining about their oval performances at times. Yes it's down to the spec nature of the series, but the American openwheelers always had that flavour to them. Sadly it seems to be fighting to increase it's audience, but it's been constantly trending upwards from what I gather.

To be fair to F1, while I have a myriad of issues how it is run these days, I cant really fault it for being a 5 horse race. Look at the historic performance and you'd be lucky to get that many. One infamous seasons of F1 is 1988 which boils down to 1 type of car, 2 drivers and about 28 also rans. Getting 6 potential race winners today is quite an exciting prospect. The rules ruin it but frankly I'm getting to old to be bothered about it. These days I switch on the broadcast 5 minutes before the green and switch off before the winner gets back to the pits. The less I have to see off the offtrack drama the better.

As far as Fred is concerned I see him going for a WEC title first, he has got the Le Mans win, is currently in the championship leading car. If the Mclaren next season isn't good I dont see him running all F1 races. Maybe some one off Indycar races are on the table, but I doubt McLaren has the capacity to run an Indycar at the moment so I'd had to be another team for him.
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#5 EFulghum

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:44 PM

Indy Car is way better this year then it has been. Finally the cars don't look stupid anymore. Racing is good, great tracks. I would like to see Ferrari and other F1 constructors build cars for Indy Car. I'd love to see Vettel and Hamilton follow Alonso's lead and come run the Indy 500.

I really love the sports car series these days. DTM, WEC, Weathertech Sports Car Series, Continental Tire Challenge Series, Austrailian V8 Supercar, Blancpain Series, Pirelli World Challenge Series, etc. Great racing, beautiful cars, great tracks.

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#6 D_J

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 01:22 AM

lol , I guess cars not looking stupid helps..  And I agree , the new chassi is way better.

Once I got the hang of the who is who and all that I really enjoy watching the Indycar series. Great road tracks  , the ovals maybe not so much but Im starting to enjoy those as well. With the strategy and all that.

#7 EFulghum

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 11:25 AM

A lot less ovals this season..... which is good.
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#8 Michkov

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 08:29 AM

View PostD_J, on 10 August 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

lol , I guess cars not looking stupid helps..  And I agree , the new chassi is way better.

Not a new chassis just aero pieces changed. The underlying tub is still the same as it has been the last 6 years
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#9 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:54 AM

IndyCar has done a great job, it has again that early/mid 90s vibe over it, also thanks to the schedule with a lot of old school tracks. :)

#10 D_J

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 02:21 AM

Alonso is leaving F1 after this season. The only thing that would make sense to me is that we see him in Indycar next season to go all in on winning the Indy500 and go for the triple crown. Question is if he will be driving for Mclaren or another team.

#11 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 04:05 AM

I'd love and hope to see Alonso joining IndyCar fulltime, but it could be he's only interested in the Indy500...

#12 EFulghum

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 06:06 AM

I think an Indy Car title is also on Alonso's mind. He has to know his chances of winning the Indy 500 are better if he is more familiar with the cars and series. Mansell, Andretti, Fittipaldi - they all got Indy Car titles I do believe.

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#13 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 08:42 AM

You're arguably right, Eric. Indeed Mansell, (Mario) Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi all have won both F1 and IndyCar c'ships. But in my mind I believe Alonso rates the Triple Crown of Motorsports even higher. As most know, the late Graham Hill is the only one to have achieved it in his career. Who knows Montoya gets a decent shot at Le Mans next year.

Also Alonso might want to run Chevy engine (with his Honda past), which would put him in either a B-team or a new to be established McLaren ICR team for a whole season.

Also would love to see Alonso running the Daytona 500 :D

Edited by Robert Fleurke, 16 August 2018 - 08:43 AM.


#14 zzbusch1

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Posted 17 August 2018 - 10:28 AM

View PostRobert Fleurke, on 16 August 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:



Also would love to see Alonso running the Daytona 500 :D

The only way this would happen is if it's profitable for the drivers, Sponsors and Broadcasters.  NASCAR is all about who makes the most money. It has nothing to do with racing.

That said it would be fun to see. They might even let him win.     I suspect his Honda engine at Indy had a "limited" lifetime.
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#15 Andrew Hutchinson

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:48 AM

I've been watching some of the indycar events on youtube the day after and find them quite enjoyable.  Can't stand full course cautions but this way I get to FFwd through them. The racing is good like the others say. A lot of very good drivers in the series.

The first F1 race I can remember involved Mansell in a Williams  CA 1986 but over the last decade I've been trying to kill the bug. I still love watching guys like Kimi or Hulkenberg drive and it's not lost on me that Vettel/Hamilton might be the first title fight between two  drivers whose parents wouldn't have been able to put their kids through senior karting. It isn't all bad but the overwhelming feeling I get from Formula 1 is of selfishness and deceit. I keep hearing that it is a sport when it's nothing of the sort but rather a category built on shaky commercial foundations and the premise that telling everyone within earshot how amazing it is will make it amazing enough.

Most of the teams are designers who contract out work rather than work in house. While that is great for local industry, at least for me, it puts paid to the idea of the constructor as an idea with its own legs. My feeling is that If they are not autonomous enough to make their own creations - if it is just art - who cares? Why not have a spec series? Put together 60 cars, have heats, a repchage, grid 34 and see which kid comes out on top. Then give them a lollipop. Rinse and repeat to establish championship positions.

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#16 EFulghum

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:49 AM

If Alonso's first Indy 500 attempt is a sample of things to come, I'd bet he gets that Indy 500 win and the Championship his first year in Indy Car.
Alonso needs to go to DTM after that :P
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#17 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 02:40 PM

I'm pretty sure Alonso would be challenging for racewins and the c'ship. Give him a competitive car and he'll deliver. Since at IndyCar the driver really can make the difference, he'd be awesome at road courses. He's got incredible racecraft and superb at wheel to wheel combat. Also at ovals he'll adapt soon I expect.

He's an entertaining world class driver, despite lack of results last few seasons. Let's hope he does the whole season, win-win for everyone! :)

#18 Michkov

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 03:28 PM

View PostEFulghum, on 18 August 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

If Alonso's first Indy 500 attempt is a sample of things to come, I'd bet he gets that Indy 500 win and the Championship his first year in Indy Car.
Alonso needs to go to DTM after that :P

If you like DTM I highly recommend Japanese Super GT. Full races are on youtube with English comms.
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#19 Robert Fleurke

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 03:45 PM

But to come back to Dag's F1 complaint. There always have been dominant teams/drivers at different era's, and that's OK. But there is not enough action on the track. It's true these cars are aerodynamically so designed they have a lot of turbulence behind them, also thanks to the diffuser. It's impossible to follow close or you will destroy the front tires since you lack front downforce.

They simply need to make the rules so the car behind doesn't lose so much downforce following. Smaller front wings, more emphasis on body downforce. no rear aero elements apart from rearwing. To name some.

They can keep the innovations, but I would try to go in the direction of a H2 combustion engine (not the H2 to electric convert). I've never understood how batteries are environment friendly. It takes ages and spaces to dismantle that shit when they're done. Rather have some good old petrolhead friendly CO2 emission, but H2 (hydrogen) would burn clean with O2 (oxygen) to H2O (water)!

#20 Michkov

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Posted 18 August 2018 - 08:16 PM

View PostRobert Fleurke, on 18 August 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

It's true these cars are aerodynamically so designed they have a lot of turbulence behind them,...

I have to disagree on this point Rob, while the cars are designed to shed vortices like nothing else. It's not to screw over the guy behind them. If you'd design a car for extra turbulent air behind it you failed your job as a racecar designer. Every bit on the car has an influence on it's performance, throwing in a turbulator for the sake of having one is wasting precious fuel. It's a tradeoff between drag and downforce, the turbulent air behind the car is a case of not my problem. Yes I agree with the whole point that the current cars have gone overboard with the outwash wing. Bit more underbody aero and smaller simpler wings would be my prefered way, but with the F1 working groups staffed by the teams you got the inmates running the asylum and all of them have their own agenda.
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